Pre-ministerial press conference

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Good afternoon, and it's good to see you all here in the press theatre.

Tomorrow, NATO Foreign Ministers will meet here at NATO Headquarters, and we have much to discuss.

As we look ahead to the next NATO Summit in Ankara in July, Allies will address the evolving threats to our security.

They will review the action taken to strengthen our deterrence and defence, and we will also meet in the NATO Ukraine Council with Foreign Minister Sybiha, along with the EU High Representative Kallas.

As we begin to look ahead to our next Summit in Türkiye, we will examine the evolving threats and challenges to our security - including from Russia - and how we are progressing on the crucial decisions leaders made in The Hague.

Allies agreed to invest 5% of GDP on defence. Including 3.5% on core defence spending.

In support of men and women of our armed forces, as well as to provide all they need to protect us - aircraft, tanks, ships and drones as well as cyber and space capabilities.

That commitment to invest more in our security was a major leap which recognised our changing reality.

And since then, we have made meaningful progress. Each week I see new announcements from Allies working to boost their capabilities.

But this is only the beginning of a long road, and we cannot be complacent. We must build momentum and hold each other accountable as we work to keep our 1 billion citizens safe.

Increasing our investment is only truly effective if supply matches demand, and that's why we are also rapidly scaling up production capacity.

Across NATO, Allies are working hand-in-hand with industry to ensure we are producing what we need and innovating to ensure we stay ahead of the curve. This is a win-win for our societies, bolstering our security and our prosperity and also creating jobs on both sides of the Atlantic.

Turning to Ukraine, we all recognise that our security is deeply linked, and we are all working to bring the war against Ukraine to an end with a just and lasting peace.

We welcome the ongoing efforts led by the United States to make this a reality, and I am confident that these sustained efforts will eventually restore peace in Europe.

At tomorrow's working lunch of the NATO Ukraine Council, we will be joined, as I said, by Ukraine's Minister of Foreign Affairs, Andrii Sybiha, and the EU's High Representative Kaja Kallas.

As we work for peace, we cannot lose sight of Russia's increasingly brutal attacks against Ukraine. Russia is systematically targeting civilian infrastructure, depriving Ukrainians of heat and light at the start of winter.

Russia is not alone in this war, as China continues to be its decisive enabler and Iran and North Korea also provides support.

Since the earliest days of Russia's full-scale invasion, Allies have shown unwavering commitment to Ukraine. In recent months, European and Canadian Allies have provided billions of dollars of essential US equipment to Ukraine through PURL.

This support is an important part of our ongoing efforts to ensure Ukraine has what it needs to defend today and deter future aggression.

And still, there is more we must do. I expect Allies to announce new contributions in the coming days. So, it's clear that we have a challenging agenda ahead.

But Allies have shown that they are ready, willing and able to work together to ensure we can tackle the challenges effectively keeping our 1 billion people safe today and into the future.

And with that, I'm ready to take your questions.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay, let's start right here, second row on the corner.

Vlad Ungar, Romanian National TV

Hello. Vlad Ungar, Romanian National Television. Secretary General, how does NATO reassure Romanian citizens that they are protected in a context where more and more drones are falling on Romanian territory, or enter in the Romanian airspace?

How do you see the concrete implementation of the Eastern Sentry activity to prevent other drones from violating Romanian airspace?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Well, thank you for that question. And I had a very successful meeting in Romania. I think it was now three, four weeks ago in Bucharest. And obviously we are working very hard, at these problems.

So, first of all, you mentioned already Eastern Sentry, that is basically bringing together all the Alliance is doing when it comes to the eastern flank, from the Black Sea up to the High North. And that is progressing rapidly, involving all military elements of the Alliance. And part of Eastern Sentry is, and this is specific to your question, is to make sure we will get better and better at tackling the drone threat, both by drone production ourselves and making sure that we have our hands on the latest technology, but also when it comes to anti-drone technology. So that is an integral part of Eastern Sentry, and I can assure you, we are progressing rapidly, and this is important. With help, for example, from Ukraine through our JATEC, Joint Center in Poland, where we basically share all the lessons learned, also by Ukraine, specifically when it comes to drones, of course, but also generally in this terrible war of aggression started by the Russians.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay, fourth row, in the very center. Interfax, Ukraine.

Iryna Somer, Interfax Ukraine

So, the question is, as Mr. Witkoff is right now is in Moscow, and negotiation regarding US-led peace plan for Ukraine, is still under negotiation. We all know that old version of 28 points also include NATO. Like, Ukraine has to give up his ambition to become a member of NATO and so on, so on. You know what I'm talking about.

In her speech, President Ursula von der Leyen already said nothing about NATO, without NATO. So I would like to know what is your opinion on this? Do you foresee that NATO will step up in this negotiation and when, thank you?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Well, when it comes to the NATO elements, obviously, when it comes to the NATO elements of a deal to end the war against Ukraine, that will be dealt with separately, and that obviously will include NATO. And when it comes to your general comment, I think it is very good that the US has put forward proposals. You need to start somewhere. You need to have proposals on the table. As you know, both in Geneva and two days ago in Miami, talks have been taking place with the Ukrainian side. Indeed, talks today with the Russian side. So we follow that closely. And I think it's really important that the US is leading these efforts, making sure that we do whatever we can to end this terrible war.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

All right, coming over here, fourth row on the end, RND.

Sven Schulz, RND

Thank you very much. Sven Schulz, with German newspaper network RND. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov announced that Russia wants to use the peace negotiations to achieve its goal in the war against Ukraine. So, do you want to see Russia, instead of Ukraine, making significant concessions, instead of demanding the maximum here?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Well, obviously, we want the war to end, but with a sovereign Ukraine, and a situation where Russia will never, ever try again to attack Ukraine, that's key. The talks are now underway. I've stopped years ago to comment on Lavrov, on Putin, or on Peskov. I've met them all in the past as Prime Minister of the Netherlands, and I can assure you, let them talk and not always react.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

All right, and just next to him. AFP.

Martin Anton, AFP

Yes. Thank you. Martin Anton, for AFP. Coming back to the NATO membership of Ukraine, which was, Ukraine not being a member of NATO was part of the original US plan, as far as we know, and even though it's not the latest proposal, does the Ukrainian NATO membership remain a bargaining chip in the negotiations with Russia?

And is the absence of US Secretary of State Rubio tomorrow a sign for the relevance of NATO in this process?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Well, starting with your second question. Marco Rubio is very much involved, of course, in all of this when it comes to ending the war in Ukraine. You've seen him chairing the meetings in Geneva and in Miami. I've been, and the teams are in constant contact. I personally am in constant contact with him. So, he's working extremely hard, having to take care not only of the situation in Ukraine, but of course, many other issues which are on his plate. So, I totally accept him not being able to be here tomorrow, and I would not read anything in it, we will have Deputy Secretary Chris Landau here. I'm very happy he is here. So, I think that's all covered.

When it comes to your question on the 28 point plan. I mean, we have moved on, and the 28 point plan was this original plan. I think all these negotiations always start with an initial draft. Otherwise, you cannot start the process. But we have moved on. We have had, as I said, and you know, Geneva, we have had the meeting in Miami, and, of course, today talks taking place in Russia. This specific question on a membership of NATO for Ukraine. I think it's important to maybe separate the principle from the practical. The practical situation is, as you know, that there is consensus required by all Allies for Ukraine to join NATO. And right now, as you know, there is no consensus on Ukraine joining NATO. When it comes to the principle, that's that Washington Treaty in 1949, and the Washington Treaty still stands. And also, what we decided in the Washington Summit in 2024.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay, first row.

Thomas Gutschker, FAZ
Thomas Gutschker, with Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, good afternoon. We've seen a number of attacks recently, hybrid attacks that have been directly attributed to Russia, including the incident in Poland. How do you think NATO should respond to this? How can NATO deter Russia from future attacks like this on NATO soil? And do you agree with what the Chairman of the Military Committee just said, that NATO nations need to become more aggressive in countering these hybrid activities? So basically, hitting back.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Well, first of all, let's agree that NATO was founded as a defensive Alliance, and of course, that is not going to change. But having said that, we should, at the same time, have no doubt that we can and will ensure our security, whether the threats we face are conventional or these threats are hybrid. And that's one of the reasons why the leaders when we came together in The Hague agreed on a revised hybrid strategy, because we know this is the reality of today. Hybrid and cyber, they are the realities of today, and we have to confront them. Of course, we cannot always tell you exactly what we do, but you know the strategy, and we will keep continuing, making sure that we are safe.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay, we'll come over here. Second row. Politico.

Victor Jack, Politico
Hello, Victor Jack from Politico. I have two quick questions, the first on the Ukraine peace plan, apart from the accession of Ukraine to NATO, does NATO have any specific red lines when it comes to mentions of the Alliance within the peace plan?

And second question on PURL, as Allies look to make the program sustainable into the coming years, can you tell us some of the ideas, or that you're thinking about in terms of making that work in the long run?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Yes on the first question. Again, this is all coming from the 28 point plan, and this has moved on. It was good that it was there, because you need to start the process somewhere. We have had a number of meetings. And as I said, when it comes to NATO, and whether that is anything about NATO is mentioned in a deal to end the war, obviously, that will be dealt with separately with NATO, etc.

On PURL, the good news is that at the moment, we are on track. We needed about 4 billion by this time of year, which started in August, 1 billion a month. And we are now at 4 billion. So, we still have some work to do in December, but I'm quietly optimistic, cautiously optimistic, that we will also get December done. And then for next year, of course, we need to make sure that for the whole year we have at least again, 1 billion a month to buy this essential gear from the US. And can I stress how essential this is? This is stuff which we do not have in Europe in terms of production and/or because of stockpiles. And this includes offensive, but also defensive elements in the packages.

And one of the things we will be discussing tomorrow with the foreign ministers is how to take this forward. So I put forth some proposals to make sure that where this year, it was cap in hand, and I don't mind going cap in hand, and happily do that for Ukraine and so many Allies have now contributed. We have seen recent announcements by countries like Norway, the Netherlands, Canada and others. I think we have now about two thirds of the Alliance participating in PURL, but we need a little bit more this month, December, and we will get there and then next year, on a more secure footing, so that it costs me less time. But I'm not important here, if necessary, I will go, keep on going, cap in hand, but we will discuss that tomorrow, to keep, get it on a more secure footing.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay. And just next to him, the woman in the black jacket.

Xenia Polska, DW

Xenia Polska from Deutsche Welle, Ukrainian and Russian. So, going back to the membership of Ukraine, which Ukraine believes would be the best security guarantee for it, what other security guarantees could NATO provide to Ukraine? Or what other security guarantees could NATO be part of? What options are on the table now? Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Of course, I cannot now disclose what is being discussed concretely today, but you've seen some of that debate taking place over the last three, four months. One element of that discussion is the Coalition of the Willing, under the leadership of France and the United Kingdom. Coming together to discuss how post a long-term cease fire, or, even better, a total peace deal on Ukraine, how to make sure that Ukraine can be supported in a way that Russia will never attack again. So, to not make again, the mistake we did with the Minsk agreements, where basically Russia was willing to try again, a couple of years later, with the full onslaught, unprovoked in 2022.

You've also heard here the Americans saying, we want to participate in the security guarantees. I think that was a very important moment in August when that happened. And of course, those discussions are still taking place. We now have to bring the war to a point where it ends. And then, of course, we have to make sure that we hammer out all the details.

But a lot of work has been done by the Europeans also working closely together with the Americans to make sure that post a peace deal, we can have security guarantees in place for Ukraine so that they are as safe as possible. Of course, building on the Ukrainian Armed Forces as the first layer of defense for Ukraine itself.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay, we'll finish the end of this row, and then I promise, we'll come over here.

Ruslana Brianska, Hromadske Radio

Secretary General, you met yesterday with Denys Shmyhal, Ukraine Minister of Defense. And to discuss strengthening Ukrainians air systems. And were any agreements reached?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Yeah. So, it was not that we had to reach agreements. It was basically taking stock of the situation. And indeed, air defense systems for Ukraine are, of course, always high on the agenda, and the defensive systems, but also the interceptors to be used in the systems and through the systems.

And this is something which is also central to this PURL initiative. Next to all kinds of offensive stuff, this is an important part of it. There is a lot happening bilaterally, also between European nations and Ukraine to make sure that Ukraine, and particularly the innocent civilians and, but also the civilian infrastructure, is as much as possible protected against these crazy, totally crazy onslaughts by the Russians.

And we have seen this weekend again, sort of, some people are saying again, a sort of record when it comes to missiles and drones hitting Ukraine, killing people. And our thoughts and prayers are, of course, with those families of the bereaved ones, but we want to make sure that we do everything possible. And this was high on the agenda, not to reach an agreement, but really to take stock of where we are and how we can even do more.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay, coming over here, we'll start with Reuters second row.

Andrew Gray, Reuters

Thank you. Andrew Gray from Reuters. Secretary General, does NATO stand by its declaration in Bucharest, in 2008, that Ukraine will become a member of NATO?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Well, you have seen the Washington Summit outcome, which clearly stated that it is an irreversible path for Ukraine into NATO. You know the Washington declaration, that any country in the NATO hemisphere, that means the Euro-Atlantic, can apply for membership. Ukraine clearly applied for membership. But we also know, as I said, and this is a practical statement of practicality and a statement of fact, that there is no unanimity within the Alliance about Ukraine coming in the Alliance.

So that's one of the reasons when, when it comes to a future peace deal, we are discussing how, if not, NATO membership, how we can make sure that Ukraine is protected in a way, by itself, but also with help from others, so that the Russians will not try again.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay, and just next to him.

Isabelle Schaefers, ZDF

Hi, Isabelle Schaefers, German TV, ZDF. I would like to come back to the peace negotiations, because you said that the plan has moved on and that nothing about NATO will be discussed without NATO, but we all know that the plan can still move on, between the US and Russia. So how sure can you be that NATO will not be part of these discussions? And that does not only include the membership of Ukraine, but also NATO engagement in Ukraine. Will the outcome be that in the end, NATO member countries will have to secure the deal, and NATO cannot do anything because it's excluded?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Well, first of all, let's hope that we get to a point where there is a peace deal. And at the moment, it is the Americans very much pushing for that, and I commend them, and we are closely coordinating with the Americans and being helpful wherever we can as NATO, to get that peace deal done. And of course, they are, as you know, closely in discussions with Ukrainians. There are discussions today with the Russians. But again, the 28-point plan has moved on. That's clear, and I can assure you, when it comes to all aspects of a potential future peace deal on Ukraine, we are closely coordinating with the Americans.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay, and the third row here, Bloomberg.

Andrea Palasciano, Bloomberg

Andrea Palasciano from Bloomberg. Thank you, Secretary General. You mentioned that anything pertaining to NATO and the negotiations will be dealt with separately. Can you confirm this has started already, in which format and who will be at the table? Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Let me just stick with that statement, because everything I say about the peace process might not be helpful, so the less I say about it, the better it is. But this is just to make sure that you understand, and that, of course, also coordinating closely with the Americans, we make sure that this is a separate issue to be dealt with.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay and just next to her, we'll go to Greece.

Maria Vasileiou, Ta Nea

Hi, Secretary General, Maria Vasileiou, Ta Nea, Greece.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Hi.

Maria Vasileiou, Ta Nea

I suppose you are following the discussions among Europeans on the reparations loan. I would like to ask you whether you share Belgium's position that the reparations loan might be an obstacle to the peace plan discussed. And do you have the feeling that there is some sort of inconsistency among Europeans? Because on one side, they, you know, it is claimed that supporting Ukraine is of utmost importance for European security. On the other hand, it's so difficult to agree on how to support Ukraine. And secondly, what do you think about the fact that NATO members, such as the UK were not included in the SAFE mechanism? Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Okay, please accept these are two questions about the EU, and I have my hands full trying to steer this Alliance in the right direction with all my colleagues, and I have to leave the EU to my highly respected colleague, Ursula von der Leyen, and of course, Antonio Costa, the leaders of the European Union, who do that in an excellent way, and we closely coordinate also on the issues you just mentioned, obviously, but I think I should not comment about internal EU matters.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

All right. And then just next to her, BBC.

Sergei Goryashko, BBC

Thank you, Secretary General, Sergei Goryashko. I was wondering if you could confirm that you are familiar with the current, new version of this peace plan that Witkoff has brought to Putin right now, and whether this plan concerns anyhow NATO's security, whether there is anything that NATO countries should be concerned about in it.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

What I can say is that we closely coordinate with the Americans and, of course, also with Ukrainians on this whole peace effort. It started with President Trump breaking the deadlock by engaging with President Putin in February, and he has consistently been working on this, and I think we’re all better off for that, because it was only the American president who was able to break that deadlock in the end, and he did. And therefore these talks are now underway. We do not yet know whether they will be successful. We will try everything we can do to be as positively involved as possible, but it also means that I have to talk a little bit, yeah, in a restrained fashion when it comes to all the steps, what we know, do not know, what is exactly happening, because this is not helping the process. So that's why I'm holding off a little bit on answering your question.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay, and we're going to come here in the third row, Lithuanian Public Broadcaster.

Milda Vilikanskyte, Lithuanian Public Broadcaster

Thank you. Milda Vilikanskyte from Lithuanian Public Broadcaster, my question is a bit follow up about hybrid attacks. We remember you said that it is too expensive, for example, to fight cheap drones with expensive fire jets. But for example, in Lithuania, we have confirmed with even cheaper attacks like metal balloons, and it is paralysing our airspace. Flights cannot depart or arrive to Lithuania. Do you see any measures that can be done in Lithuania by our officials, or in NATO to fight these attacks. Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Of course, we are closely coordinating with Lithuania, but with all the countries concerned, when it comes to what happened in Poland, early September, with the drone incursions clearly coming from Russia, and later on in Estonia, the three MiG-31 being guided outside of Estonian airspace.

But we have also seen drone sightings in, for example, Denmark, around the two key EU meetings taking place at the EU, informal EU Council, and then the European Political Community meeting in Denmark in Copenhagen. And we have seen similar reports from the Netherlands, from Belgium, etc.

So this is one of the reasons for two things, one of those, first of all, when it comes to the countries who are physically on the eastern flank, like Lithuania, that Eastern Sentry also entails all the activities we are working on to make sure that we, of course, we do a lot on drones already, but with the input from the Allied Command Transformation, so the Supreme Allied Commander Transformation, Pierre Vandier and, of course, General Grynkewich, the Supreme Allied Commander Europe, to make sure that we use Eastern Sentry, also to even further ramp up and step up, together with the EU, which is working on getting the industry going.

The EU is working on getting the money there and all the other stuff. What the EU is working on together with NATO, that's on the flank, and when it comes to other drone sightings, you have also seen that countries come to the help, like in Belgium, like in Denmark, even Ukraine, sending a team over to Denmark to make sure that they will be better equipped to deal with the drones which were there seen around these two key European meetings. And then the Deputy Secretary General, she was in Ukraine, I think it was now 10 days –last week, and there has also been new agreements to work with Ukraine and Ukrainian industry to even further develop our joint efforts when it comes to defence production, and particularly also when it comes to drones.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay, we have time for a couple more questions. We're going to go up to NTV Türkiye.

Gul Sonomut, NTV Türkiye

Secretary General, good afternoon. I'm just in front of you here. Gul from NTV Türkiye, good afternoon. I have two questions. First is with regard the attacks that we're witnessing in the Black Sea on shadow or ghost fleets, this is raising security concern for Türkiye. So what is your point of view on the situation and what NATO can do on that topic?

And my second question is that I believe that there is three or four ministerial left that will pave the way to the Summit in Ankara. So, what will be the concrete deliverable to the Summit in Ankara? And do you think that that might be a milestone for the ceasefire with Ukraine and Russia, Russia Ukraine, or whether it couldn’t be earlier. Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

Yes, on the first question. What we have, seen the reports, of course, as you also mentioned, of two shadow fleet ships in the Black Sea that were struck by uncrewed vessels over the weekend. And we have also heard the concerns expressed by, indeed, Türkiye, our Ally, Türkiye, about safety in the Black Sea. And let me just say this, I really believe that this incident is again, further evidence of the broader security risk posed by Russia's ongoing war against Ukraine.

On your second question, of course, we are –Ankara is not tomorrow. Ankara is today. But I mean, the Summit in Ankara is not tomorrow. That will be next year, but we are really working together with Türkiye and all Allies on making sure that it will be a splash again, a big success.

As you know, we will take decisions on the exact outcomes later. First of all, when it comes to Ukraine, I hope, of course, we pray for a peace deal or a full ceasefire before the Summit. So, let's hope it doesn't have to wait till then. But when it comes to the Summit, one of the elements, no doubt, and I'm not saying this is the outcome, but an important outcome of the Summit has to be the follow up of The Hague. So when it comes to defence spending, that a credible path is there, to get to the 5%, when it gets, when it concerns the defence industrial production, that we are ramping up defence industrial production, also making use of the impressive defence industrial base in Türkiye.

And thirdly, when it comes to Ukraine, hopefully there is a peace deal, if not, that indeed, all Allies together are working day in day out to make sure that Ukraine has what it needs to stay in the fight as strong as possible, and then to be as strong as possible, also in peace negotiations, if that has not already led to a full peace deal.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay the gentleman here.

Venhar Isufi, Teve1 Kosovo

Thank you very much. I'm Mr. Venhar Isufi, journalist from Teve1 Kosovo. I have two questions, Mr. Secretary General. Kosovo and Serbia have not yet resumed the dialogue, as Kosovo still does not have a new government, while Vucic is facing protest, what is your message to both sides? Should they return to the negotiation table?

And the second question is, it has been two years since the attack in Banjska and one year in Iber-Lepenc in Zubin Potok. We have the KFOR troops continue to provide security in the four northern municipalities. But how do you assess the current situation in Kosovo? Thank you very much.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

As you know on the second question, that for over two years, we have consistently continued to call for accountability, for the perpetrators of the attacks in both Zvečan and Banjska in 2023 to be brought to justice. My predecessor has worked on this with Alexander Vucic, the President of Serbia. I did myself. He told me that he would work on this. He would deliver. And we really count on the Serbian authorities to play their part in this respect. When it comes, of course, to the dialogue between Serbia and Kosovo, and between Pristina and Belgrade, that's very much EU-led. We follow that closely. And of course, NATO is involved indirectly through KFOR and we try to be as helpful as possible, also to that, on that issue.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay and then two more questions. Second row here.

Ardy Stemerding, NOS

Thank you very much. Ardy Stemerding for NOS, the Dutch public broadcaster. Mr. Rutte, you were talking about a summit in Ankara. But to what extent do you actually believe that the current negotiations may result in a peace deal or a ceasefire soon?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

It's difficult to say. I know that the Americans are doing everything they can to get there. And look at the numbers for a sec. We have seen now 20,000 Russians a month dying. We have seen enormous losses on the Ukrainian side. Ukrainians are mounting a fierce defence of their country, but there are many Ukrainians dying in the war. This is what President Trump called the meat grinder. It's got to stop.

We have seen yesterday the footage of President Putin, dressed up like a soldier, far from the front line. Really, terrible footage, and knowing that he is responsible for 20,000 deaths each month on his side. So we've got to stop this. We've got to stop the meat grinder, and that's why I'm fully supportive of the American effort to get the war to an end.

It's difficult to predict whether we will be successful. I can assure you that everybody, on the Ukrainian side, NATO, and of course, led by the Americans, is trying to get there, because we want this ended. But in the end, we need two to tango. So, we also need the Russians to tango, and that's being tested at the moment, so it's difficult to predict.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay and finally, Table Media, fourth row on the aisle.

Stefan Israel, Table.Media

Stefan Israel, Europe Table, thank you very much. My question is, Kaja Kallas yesterday warned after the Defence Council that pressure is, could be, is only put on one side, on the weaker side, on Ukraine. Do you share this assessment, or this warning? What can NATO do against it? And if there is a situation, its quite well imaginable that Putin and Trump agree on a deal at the cost of Ukraine and maybe Europe and NATO? What, would you still stand on the side of Ukraine, then? Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte

But I have every confidence in what the Americans try to achieve. And you've seen Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner and Marco Rubio, both in Geneva as well as in Miami, working on getting this done together with the Ukrainians. They are now dialoguing with the Russians. They are constantly aligning with the Europeans and within NATO to make sure we are all on the same page. I cannot criticise that process at all. So, I'm, to be honest, I'm not worried about that outcome you just mentioned.

I think we can get there. But as I said to the last question here from the Dutch media, it needs two to tango. I think the Ukrainians, you see the Ukrainians wanting to play ball, they want to end this, and they are very appreciative of the American peace effort. Today, we will see whether the Russians are willing also to engage. That's now being tested.

NATO Spokesperson Allison Hart

Okay. Thank you very much. We'll see you tomorrow.