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EKHO MOSKVY: What's biggest threat - Russia or ISIL? 

NATO Secretary General Jens STOLTENBERG:  I think it's wrong to start to compare different kinds of threats.  The important thing is that NATO is facing challenges both to the South with ISIL, which is  responsible for committing atrocities which is also an organization which is trying to undermine the stability of the whole region.  Then, of course, we face different challenges to the East.  And the challenge NATO is facing to the East is that we have tried, for many, many years, to establish a cooperative relationship with Russia. 

And we still strive for a cooperative and constructive relationship with Russia.  But the conditions for such a relationship is undermined by the aggressive actions we have seen of Russia, especially in Ukraine, where Russia has changed border by the use of force; and still is trying to move borders by the use of force. And that's undermining the conditions, the possibilities for a cooperative relationship we'd like to have with Russia. 

EKHO MOSKVY:  Can you compare Russia with ISIL?

STOLTENBERG: But it's two completely different things. ISIL is a terrorist organization.  ISIL is committing atrocities in Iraq and Syria.  Russia is a State we would like to establish and constructive relationship with; and a State, a nation we'd like to develop much closer ties to.  So that's no reason to compare.  It's completely different.  And therefore they are completely different challenges. But I regret that Russia is not respecting the sovereignty and the territorial integrity of a country as Ukraine. 

EKHO MOSKVY: We're getting the impression that there's a direct confrontation going on between Russia and NATO.  Is that really the case?

STOLTENBERG: Again, we don't seek confrontation with Russia. We don't want a Cold War.  We very much want cooperation... a constructive... constructive relationship with Russia.  But the problem is that, then, also Russia needs to want it.  And a precondition for being about to engage in a constructive cooperative relationship is that we respect each other.  And the minimal requirement for respecting each other is that we are respecting our borders, our sovereignty and territorial integrity.  And as long as that not the case, then it's obvious that it's difficult. 

And therefore I very much would like to see that Russia is making another choice. Because Russia has the choice to choose either isolation by continuing to violate international law and try to change border by the use of force. 

Or Russia can chose cooperation and closer relationship with NATO, with the international community by respecting other countries, by respecting international law.  And I very much would like to see the latter.

EKHO MOSKVY:  Russia is harmless...  My country has no permanent troops in Ukraine.... At the same time, you and NATO going to build bases...  United States have sent 150 tanks.  So isn't there really a direct confrontation?

JENS STOLTENBERG:  What NATO is doing is in response to what we have seen from the Russian side.  Everything we have done has been first of all defensive.  Second, it has been always within our international obligations, within international law.  A big difference is that Russia has violated international law; has used force to violate the borders and the territorial integrity and the sovereignty of an independent nation.  And that's the big difference.  There's a big difference between respecting international law; respecting borders of other countries and not respecting them.

We are respecting the international law and the borders of other countries; Russia has not. And that's the big challenge in this situation.  And I regret that; because that removes the possibilities and the conditions for the close cooperation, the constructive relationship we want to have with Russia. But that requires another behaviour. 

EKHO MOSKVY: Is NATO ready to engage in military confrontation with Russia?

JENS STOLTENBERG:  NATO is not seeking confrontation.  We are not seeking a new Cold War.  We want cooperation. But at the same time, NATO always stands ready to protect and defend all Allies against any threats.  But we are a defensive organization.  Our aim is to defend, to protect our Allies. 

EKHO MOSKVY:  Is the spearhead force pointed at Mr. Putin?

STOLTENBERG:  It's not pointed that, to anything in particular.  It's a force which enables us to meet threats from whenever they might come.  And what we have seen is that we are living in world which is more unstable and more insecure than before.  And therefore we have decided to develop this force. But it's not directed to anyone.  It's something which may be used if needed to defend our Allies wherever the threat is coming from. 

EKHO MOSKVY: These are assault weapons.  So how are you going to target these weapons? It is an assault. 

STOLTENBERG :  It's not targeted at anyone.  It increases our ability to deploy forces if needed to defend our Alliance.  And we respect the borders.  We respect the sovereignty and respect the territorial integrity of all of our neighbours. And Russia is our biggest neighbour. And I regard Russia as a great nation with a great history.  And I wish actually that Russia is able to succeed. And I also very much believe that if Russia is engaging in the cooperation with us it will be to the benefit of both Russia and NATO. 

EKHO MOSKVY:  Do you think you will manage to convince Allies to establish this spearhead force?

STOLTENBERG:  I'm certain that we're going to be able to implement the decisions we took at our Summit in Wales in September to establish a Spearhead Force.  We are now discussing the details. And we're going to make decisions on the composition and the size and so on of the force later on.  But I'm certain that we're going to be able to establish that force. 

EKHO MOSKVY:  Peskov asked for 100 percent guarantees Ukraine won't join NATO - will you give them?

STOLTENBERG:  Just the question illustrates a phenomenal lack of understanding about what is a sovereign nation.  It is enshrined in the Helsinki final act which was signed by the Soviet Union in 1975.  And it's enshrined in many of the documents signed by both NATO countries, Russia and other countries.  That it's up... It's a free choice of every sovereign nation to decide what kind of security arrangements they would like to be a part of.  So just the idea to try to say that it's not up to Ukraine is in a way violating or undermining the sovereign choice of Ukraine as an independent sovereign nation. 

Ukraine has decided, some years ago, to be a nation not belonging to any block, any military alliance.  And I respected that when Ukraine decided that.  Now, there is a discussion in Ukraine whether they will change that; and again aspire for membership. And if they change and they're making a new decision, I also respect that; because this is something Ukraine has to decide. 

And then they could do which fulfils the standards and which respects the principles on which NATO is based and the common member of NATO.  But that is the decision of the country. And no third country outside NATO or Ukraine can have a veto or try to enforce a decision on independent countries, sovereign countries as Ukraine. That's part of their independent sovereign decision. 

EKHO MOSKVY: There is no discussion whatsoever about Ukraine joining NATO at this moment in time?

JENS STOLTENBERG: For several years, Ukraine has decided that they will not be reply for us or aspire for NATO membership. And I respect that.... I respected the decision of Ukraine.  So then we have seen that the new government has stated that they are planning to have a referendum as far as I understand, related to the question of whether Ukraine again shall aspire for membership in NATO.  Well, first, they have to have the referendum.  And I don't know when... actually.  But if that happens in some years, OK, then it's up to the people of Ukraine to decide.  If the majority of the people in Ukraine decide to maintain a policy of not aspiring for NATO membership, well that's not... then the question is not on the table.  But if a majority of the people in Ukraine, in a referendum organized by the government in Ukraine decides that they would like to be a member, then it's on the table. That's true.  And then we have to look into whether Ukraine is fulfilling the standards or it's up to the standards, adheres in all ways to the principles of democracy, freedom that makes them able to become member. But that's something we're going to discuss later on; if they want membership. 

EKHO MOSKVY: Any guarantees that there will be no further expansion of NATO?

JENS STOLTENBERG:  Both Russia and all NATO Allies have signed international agreements many times stating that it's up to... it's a decision by free independent nations what kind of security agreements or arrangements they would like to be part of.  And I respect that.  And all countries that have become members of NATO have become members because they wanted it.  It's their own independent decisions.  It's been 100% voluntary that they have wished for membership. And 28 countries have independent democratic process decided that they would like to be part of an Alliance protecting each other. 

They are free to leave if they want.  NATO is an organization where we never force anybody to be part of the Alliance.  So if they want to leave, they can leave.  But if they want to be part of the Alliance, they're also welcome as long as they are democratic societies living up to the standards and the principles of the Alliance. 

EKHO MOSKVY:  What would you tell Mr Putin since you only communicate with the press?

STOLTENBERG:  NATO is a defensive alliance.  NATO is protecting our Allies. And we have... NATO enlargement is a result of free independent decisions taken by free independent countries.  And I think that the idea of trying to deny them not, it's actually undermining their freedom, their independence.

Second, I'm coming from Norway.  And we have been members of NATO since the foundation in 1949.  We have been, for all these years, a neighbour of the Soviet Union and now Russia. And we have had a very good cooperation with Russia along our borders both on land and in the sea.  We have worked with Russia on a wider range of issues like energy, fishery, environment, political cooperation, also several military issues up in the North. And this good cooperation between a NATO Ally Norway with our neighbour Russia has been to the great benefit of both the people in Russia with open borders, lots of trade, lots of people going back and  forth.  And the benefit to Norway. 

But it has been... this is based on 100% respect, mutual respect.  We have, of course, respected Russia and their interest up in the North.  And Russia has respected the sovereignty, the integrity of Norway.  And as long as we respect each other, we can cooperate and work together. We're not a threat.  We are partners. We are neighbours.  But as that fundamental principle of respect is violated, borders have changed, forces are used, then we are moving into something which is bad both for us and for Russia.

EKHO MOSKVY: It is In this regard that President Putin is saying that encircling Russia with bases is a sign of no respect toward her.

JENS STOLTENBERG:  First of all, there is no military bases in all NATO countries.  Second we have... had some increased military presence; because we have seen Russia using military forces in an aggressive way especially in Ukraine, changing borders, all of an independent serving country.

And thirdly, these are decisions taken by free, independent nations through democratic processes.  So if people want to be part of an Alliance where you protect each other.  I don't think it's...  it's of neither me or political leadership in Moscow to try to deny them.  We have to respect the decisions of people in different countries.  And they joined NATO by their own free will. 

EKHO MOSKVY:  So you do see that escalation ... on both sides of the border will continue, don't you?

STOLTENBERG:  I very much hope that the Minsk Agreement will be respected. Because I very much hope that it should be possible a peaceful negotiated solution to the conflict in Ukraine.  And there is no alternative. There is no military solution to the conflict in Ukraine. And therefore, it is very important that the Minsk agreements are respected; that the ceasefire is respected.  And that also Russia withdraws its troops from Ukraine, respecting the integrity of Ukraine.

EKHO MOSKVY:  President Putin says that there are no RUS troops there. What kind of proof you have?

JENS STOLTENBERG:  First, we were told that were no Russian soldiers in Crimea. Then after a while, Russia admitted that there were Russian soldiers in Crimea. 

Then we were told there were no Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine.  But our intelligence provides reports about... that they are Russian forces in Ukraine. And that's actually the same picture as we get from other sources, open sources from journalists in the region and from the organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe OSCE which has monitors along the borders and in the region.  And they're also providing with information about the movement of troops, equipment, tanks.  We have reports about advanced anti-aircraft or air-defence systems.  And this equipment can only come from Russia. In addition, we have seen reports from... from NGOs in social media about various funerals of Russian soldiers who have lost their lives in Ukraine. So I mean the task for a Russian journalist is to go and ask them, the families have lost their loved ones inside Ukraine.  So I think there are some of our intelligence... the reports from OSCE and from independent sources and the fact that we have seen a lot of reports about burials of Russians who have lost their lives inside of Ukraine.  It adds very much up to the  picture I am telling you: that there Russian soldiers inside of Ukraine.  And that's also a very strong assessment of not only me but also of 28 Allies which have the same assessment about the situation in Eastern Ukraine.

EKHO MOSKVY:  Since we are talking about weapons - is there a consolidated stance in NATO on France's Mistral deal?

STOLTENBERG:   Hum, the question of supplies of military is not an issue which is decided on in NATO.  It's up to each Ally.  NATO doesn't possess any military equipment.  It's different nations, different Allies who are deciding on whether to provide such military equipment or not.  So I leave that to the French government to decide. 

EKHO MOSKVY: So NATO did not take a decision on embargo of arms supplies to Russia?

STOLTENBERG:  NATO has not taken a decision.  But there are economic sanctions. But they are imposed by the European Union, the United States and others. And all NATO Allies are part of that; but not through NATO; but through the European Union and of course the United States.  And those economic sanctions, they are also provisions which now is regulating more or limiting the sales of military equipment.

EKHO MOSKVY:  Mr. SecGen, are you ready to meet president Putin now?

STOLTENBERG:  First, I would like to say that I during many years in government in Norway, as minister and as prime minister.  I developed good working relationship with different politicians in Russia and also with the Putin both as a president and as a prime minister. 

And that was a sign of the cooperation we have had for many years between NATO, based on mutual respect. And that was a sign of the cooperation we have had for many years between NATO, based on mutual respect.  I'm... I think that it's important to keep the challenge for political dialogue open.  And what NATO has decided is that we suspended practical cooperation.  But we have kept a chance for a political dialogue open. 

Several NATO leaders or leaders of NATO Allied countries have met Putin in different occasions.  It was in Brisbane, just a few days ago.  And the... of course, it might also be that our meeting... but there is no decision yet taken.  That's a decision we had to back to. 

EKHO MOSKVY:  A meeting now that you know tensions have grown.  Isn't that the perfect moment to read and talk?

STOLTENBERG:  I think we have to come back to the question of meeting.  What I'm saying is that NATO has decided to keep the chance for political dialogue open. And different NATO Allies have met with different political leaders in Russia, several times.  And then we have to come back to the question of a meeting between me and political leaders including Putin. 

EKHO MOSKVY:  You say later - when? When a conflict will break out?

STOLTENBERG:  No, I'm not able to give you a date or exact timeline what I can.  What I am saying is that we have decided to keep the channels for political dialogue open.  And we have a political dialogue of many different levels.  We're at NATO with different Russian officials. And  NATO allies are meeting Russian officials, Russian political leaders in different frameworks and in different meetings.    And then we have to look into the question of meeting between me and political leaders in Russia. 

EKHO MOSKVY:  There's this Polish satirist and his famous phrase:  When we thought we have hit the bottom, someone knocks from downstairs.  So my question is whether we reached the bottom in our relationships? Or can we go even farther down?

JENS STOLTENBERG:  I think it's wrong of me to speculate.  My main message is that it's possible to re-establish a constructive relationship with Russia. And we are aspiring for that.  But the precondition for such a relationship is that we respect each other; respect international law and the borders of independent countries.  If we can base our cooperation on this fundamental principles of respect and respect the independence of countries.  Then I think there is a great room for cooperation.  And I've been in Russia many times.  I find the Russia a very nice to be and a lot of nice people.  And Russia is a great nation and a great history.  And you have achieved a lot.  So I'm certain that you can achieve, much more together with us, in cooperation with us; than if Russia continues on the path which leads to more isolation. 

EKHO MOSKVY:  You're a pessimist, are you?

JENS STOLTENBERG:  No, I'm always an optimist.

EKHO MOSKVY:  (Journalists talked to the Sec Gen)

JENS STOLTENBERG: Thank you.