Weekly press briefing

JAMES APPATHURAI (NATO Spokesman): My friends and colleagues, first let me take the opportunity to wish you a happy new year, because I haven't done that yet. I was in a very, very cold Canada. I have never been running at minus-31 degrees until this vacation and I will never do it again. It was horrid.

But now we're back and I would like to welcome Colonel Massimo Panizzi who is joining me here. He is, as you know, the person who speaks for the Chairman of the Military Committee and for the Military Committee, my counterpart on the military side. And he has come to speak to you about the meetings of the Chiefs of Defence. And I would like to turn the floor over to him and then I have about four points and then I'm happy to take your questions.

Massimo.

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI (Spokesperson, Chairman of the Military Committee): Thank you, James, and good afternoon to everybody. So the Military Committee, as you probably already know, meets in the Chief of Defence session on the 26th and the 27th of January, next week. Just prior to the London Conference. It will be chaired, as usual, by Admiral Giampaolo Di Paola who's the Chairman of the Military Committee.

The last time the Military Committee met in short session, as you probably remember, was last October for the extraordinary meeting on ISAF.

During the two days of meetings the 63 Chiefs of Defence will meet in different formats to discuss and evaluate all NATO operations, as well as a session on the new Strategic Concept. More in details. Besides the CHODs, also NATO's two strategic commanders, SACEUR Admiral Stavidris and the SACT General Abrial, will be present, as well as the NATO's three joint force commanders from Naples, Lisbon and Brunssum. We will have also the Chairman of the EU Military Committee, the new Chairman of the EU Military Committee, General Håkan Syrén. And also General McChrystal, COMISAF.

With the move to deterrent presence we will have these important meetings with also non-NATO contributing nations about KFOR. KFOR operation will be the subject of the first meeting of NATO members and the KFOR troop-contributing countries. The Military Committee will discuss the current move to Gate 1 and the criteria for a further move to Gate 2.

The next meeting will be then in CHOD session - which means the 28 Chiefs of Defence of the NATO member states - and they will deal about all the NATO operations, in details, Ocean Shield, Active Endeavour, NTM-I in Iraq and also the support to the African Union.

Then we will have a meeting, still during the first day, in the Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council format where we will examine the mutual benefit and the strategic challenges of the future partner contributions to the NRF, NATO Response Force, and the implementation of the NRF's new structure as agreed by Defence Ministers in June '09.

They will also discuss during the same meeting the current status of partner involvement in NRF as two countries, Finland and Ukraine, offered to participate in NRF. I already can say that Ukraine will participate in NRF 15 and 16.

Moving on. During the following session with the Mediterranean Dialogue countries, CHODs will focus on the discussion on the level of future cooperation in maritime security and on the progress towards long-term regional stability. Another item on this meeting's agenda will be the discussion on the NATO maritime strategy and the maritime security operations concepts, to define the developing role of the Alliance Maritime Forces and to articulate NATO's contribution to security in the maritime dimension. In details, they will discuss also about the lessons learned from the current operations and activities.

After this meeting the Military Committee meets in the Ukraine Commission format to evaluate the progress made on defence reform and already mentioned, the future contribution of Ukraine to the NRF.

As you know Ukraine will be the first non-NATO member state to contribute to the NRF.

At the end of the first intense day, I would say, the Military Committee will meet in NATO-Russia Council format, with the new Russian CHOD General Makarov. During the Foreign Ministerial in December '09 the NATO-Russia Council, as you know, agreed on taking the NRC forward, including the restarting of the military-to-military cooperation.

This is the first time that the Russian CHOD is coming to the CHOD meeting after May '08. They will discuss resuming practical military-to-military cooperation.

We pass now... we move to the second day. Two important themes will be addressed: the development of the new Strategic Concept and the ISAF operation. Forty-three CHODs, together with the SACEUR, General McChrystal and General Caldwell, who is the NTM-A commander, and General Kiyani, the Pakistani Chief of the Army, will discuss the operation, the ongoing troop uplifts and the way ahead for the implementation of the COMISAF strategic assessments.

Finally, for the discussion of the new Strategic Concept the Military Committee invited former Secretary of State Dr. Madeleine Albright, who is the chairperson of the Group of Experts in charge of the preparatory work for the development of this new concept. Dr. Albright will brief the CHODs on the result of the recent Strategic Concept seminars. To-date 3 out of 4 seminars have taken place and you know that the last one was two weeks ago - we had the third seminar in Oslo - we still have one seminar next month in Washington and other members of the Group of Experts will also be present.

The Military Committee will also meet with the Secretary General Rasmussen. It will be the first time for the new Secretary General to meet the CHODs. It will be a follow-up of what we already started with the previous Secretary General.

It is possible that the SecGen will cover a variety of topics, such as NATO priorities, and of course his priorities, NATO transformation and NATO reform.

We also will have some, of course, media opportunities for you and the media advisory will be issued on Friday. There will be media opportunities for the opening remarks at the beginning of the session, during the first day, and there will be a press conference, a final press conference of the Chairman of the Military Committee on the 27th at 14:15. So on that occasion the Chairman of the Military Committee will be very happy to give you the outcome of all these meetings, and to answer your questions.

Thank you for your attention. Thank you, James.

JAMES APPATHURAI: Shall we take questions... any questions directly on this, there and then there, immediately? Before we get to my things.

Q: Kai Niklasch, German Television. What is the contribution of the Ukraine to the NRF? What is the contribution and how is it possible that they are contributing without being a member of NATO?

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Okay, there is no need to be a NATO member to become a partner in the NRF. It was already agreed. The Council agreed on the participation of Ukraine to the NRF and not only. It is an open process. In the view of the global eyes the partnership that NATO is seeking, all partners are invited, if they want, to cooperate with the NRF process.

Concerning the figures, I think it is not good to give you now the figures, but they have already started the preparation work to operate for the NRF. So what the Ukraine CHOD will give us during this meeting is an overview briefing on what they are doing, the preparation work they are doing to be able to participate to the NRF 15 and 16.

Q: And what they are doing, can you give us an idea of what they are doing? What they contribute?

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: The contribution of Ukraine from the military point of view to this process is a part of the defence reform of Ukraine. Defence reform in the armed forces, military reform that we are still evaluating and that they are progressing very well. And the NRF is a step forward to this. You know probably that Ukraine is one of the main contributors, of course, to NATO operations, so it's a very added value they are giving to us.

Q: Dmitri Shkurko, National News Agency of Ukraine. Just follow-up, could you please elaborate what sphere the contribution will be? Will it be airlifting or maritime forces, what kind of a contribution is it going to be from the Ukrainian side?

And the second question concerning Kosovo. So far as I understand Ministers... Secretaries of Defence are going to discuss that in a separate basket. What does it mean? Does it mean that we can expect a crucial reduction of the NATO process there, or something else? Thanks.

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Thanks to you. Concerning Ukraine, I prefer, I think it's logical, to wait until the CHOD, the Ukrainian CHOD gives us a precise detailed briefing on what they are preparing, what is the state of play of their improvements in cooperation before giving. But I invite you to ask the same question to the Chairman during the press conference.

Concerning Kosovo, you know what is the process ongoing of Gate 1. It's an important process. So it is also this downsizing. It's a condition-based process. So this is the reason why the CHODs, both NATO-member countries and the non-NATO-contributing nation CHODs are evaluating this process, just to evaluate the condition and the criteria for the follow-up of this process.

Q: Ben Nimmo from DPA. Again on Ukraine. Are you concerned about the potential impact of the Ukrainian elections on Ukraine's participation in the Commission and the NRF? And have you had any signals from Yanukovych as to what his intentions would be yet?

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: This is a very good and interesting question. What we are really focusing on is in what was already politically decided for the military and in what was agreed in the Council and what we at the Military Committee level are evalutating. So we are evaluating a process which is ongoing and it is going very well.

Q: Nawab Khan from Kuwait News Agency KUNA. You said there's going to be a meeting also with the Mediterranean Dialogue countries. What about with the ICI countries? Will also be there a meeting?

And secondly, you said the Pakistani military chief will be here, so I'm sure also that the Afghani military chief will also be here from Afghanistan. So will there be any trilateral meeting or bilateral between the Pakistani and Afghani? Thank you.

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Thank you for this question. I think the agenda of these meetings is very intense. We in the past had CHODs meeting on the ICI. What we are now going to discuss... or CHODs are discussing, is really the more urgent issues. So but the interest on the IC countries' cooperation is still valid and will continue to be one of the main focus of our work at the military level.

Concerning the Pakistani Chief of Staff, General Kiyani, you probably remember that it is not the first time. It is a kind of continuity we want to give through these kind of invitations. We consider the regional approach to the ISAF mission and Afghanistan of international community interest. Pakistan is a part of the picture that is most important.

So General Kiyani is also giving us an overview and in this moment it's even more important for him to give us an overview. He will be present in other sessions concerning Afghanistan. This is another sign of interest and that NATO CHODs are demonstrating.

But your question, the second question on this topic was also a very good question, because you asked about Afghani representation. We also invited General Bismullah Khan. The problem is that we don't know until now if he is available. But in any case we invited a representative from the Afghani Minister of Defence. So there is an invitation, it is a matter of availability in this moment.

Q: Ahto Lobjakas, Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty. This is more of a background question really. If and when Ukraine starts contributing to NRF then what sort of impact will this have on the resumed Article 5 aspect of NRF's responsibilities? What happens if there's a call on their resources, just it's a matter of general interest I suppose.

And secondly, this may be for James more than you, but there have been reports of NATO preparing defence plans for the Baltic states. Where are these plans? Where are these preparations for these plans and then when will they be finalized? Thank you.

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Concerning the Ukraine participation to NRF, you know what NRF is. It's not just about Article 5 operation.

Q: Not just (inaudible...).

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Okay. It includes a broad range of possible interventions. So Ukraine is the first partner nation willing to contribute, but other countries can contribute so it's not just a matter of Ukraine and so I would really repeat that. So NATO is open to any kind of contribution like this one. So it's not referring it to a particular political issue.

Q: No no, I'm not referring to any particular political issue, I'm simply asking how these things will function if there should be a contingency, an Article 5 contingency, and there should be a call on NRF facilities. Do you have parallel structures then within NRF? How would this function? It's a fairly simple question, I think.

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: In my view, in my view, we cannot start elaborating on “if, if”. We are planning. This kind of process, also this contribution from Ukraine to NRF is a very calibrated process, evaluated attentively. So it's not... believe me, we cannot speak about “what-if” scenarios. I think it is not... it is not coming to anything, speaking about such scenarios.

We are now evaluating this contribution and if anything up and if we're part of a NATO road or contribution to an urgency, an emergency or whatever need. So I think I will stop here with the if hypothetical question that I personally don't like as a military.

JAMES APPATHURAI: (Laughs). Let me answer my question perhaps in no more satisfying a way, by quoting my own boss, the Secretary General from last week. When he was asked the same question he said, NATO has the plans and planning capability in place necessary to defend any of the allies. I cannot, or I do not have the liberty to go into detail about specific plans or timelines. That's all confidential.

Q: David Brunnstrom from Reuters. I was just wondering if you could be specific about what sort of military-to-military cooperation you're going to discuss with the Russians? Is there going to be any specific agreement made during this meeting?

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Okay, I can just tell you that during this meeting that we will restart concretely among the CHODs an exchange of views on possible, potential, practical, military cooperation.

You know, there were already areas of cooperation, so it will be about an exchange of views and the discussion on which kind, which areas of cooperation we can undertake in our, I would say, practical... in practical military terms of cooperation. If you want I can give you the areas, but they are already known because it is not just happening now, but logistic support, search and rescue at sea, anti-terrorism, counter-piracy. These are possible, potential areas of discussion for the work plan.

Q: Is there anything on Afghanistan, anything new on Afghanistan?

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: I repeat, we have to wait until the moment and we are open to any kind of discussion on these practical possibilities, potential areas of cooperation.

Q: Okay, thank you. Denis Dubrovin from ITAR-TASS. It's back to NRF. So could you please just update us what's the current figures. How many personnel NRF counted and could you just formulate again the main purpose of NRF?

And James, for you, just once again about Article 5. Is the participation in NRF make Article 5 applicable to the country which is the force contributor?

JAMES APPATHURAI: No. Short answer is Article 5 only applies to NATO allies, and I am quite sure that the necessary arrangements are in place that if any partner participating in the NRF finds itself in a situation in which NATO has invoked Article 5 we have the arrangements in place to ensure that NATO allies provide the core capability necessary within the mission as described.

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Concerning the figures I prefer not to give any figures, sorry. And instead concerning the range of activities operation they can perform, it goes from Article 5 operation to any kind of a crisis response operations.

Q: Jim Neuger from Bloomberg. Just following up David's question about Russia and Afghanistan. Can you remind us what the current state of play is on the use of Russian airspace to ship ISAF supplies into Afghanistan, and as the...

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Just repeat, please.

Q: What use is currently being made of Russian airspace to ship supplies into Afghanistan? I recall hearing it's one flight a day and as the Alliance builds up in Afghanistan, are you looking for more help from Russia in this area, and will there be any concrete results from next week's meeting?

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Thank you. May I ask you to... invite you to ask this same question to the Chairman after the meetings? I would like not to anticipate what will be anyway the results, or any way also the current discussion of the CHODs.

JAMES APPATHURAI: And now? Oh sorry.

Q: Rafael Canas from the Spanish News Agency EFE. Colonel, you said, if I noted right, that Ukraine is going to participate in NRF 15 and 16. Can you tell us when they are supposed to... the timetable for them?

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: According to the current timetable it would be June 2010 and January 2011.

JAMES APPATHURAI: Shall we... don't go anywhere, but shall we... (inaudible)? For both of you. Well, shall I brief first and then we do... so let me cut you on... thank you very much, but don't leave. Four points. And then I'm happy to take... we'll be happy to take any more questions.

First, today in the Council we got a briefing on the attacks that took place in Kabul. And I want to just briefly touch on that. As you have all seen in the press there were a number of targets, principally government buildings and one shopping centre. The level of casualties in the end was quite low. Three Afghan Security Forces killed in action, 32 injured, two civilians killed, 45 wounded, both by the militants, and according to the information that we have, 9 attackers killed.

ISAF... Afghan forces were in the lead from the beginning to the end in their response to the initial attacks and in restoring order. They never requested ISAF forces to engage in support. Turkish helicopters... Turkey has the lead in RC-Capital. Turkish helicopters monitored the situation, but as I said, ISAF was not requested to come in in support.

I think the general assessment, and it is an initial assessment, is that this was successful for propaganda purposes, but it was a military failure. They did not manage to breach any of the targets which they attacked, except the shopping centre, which obviously was not a hardened target. The attacks were, as I said, repelled and there were low casualty levels. So propaganda success, military failure I think was the general assessment of the... the general initial assessment that we have received so far.

Second issue is the sequence of events beginning today with the meeting in Kabul of the Joint Coordination and Management Board in Kabul, the so-called JCMB, which flows to the London Conference, which flows to a future conference in Kabul.

Today the JCMB met. It is basically the key Afghan and international decision-making body created by the Afghan Compact, Afghanistan Compact, led by the Afghan government, co-chaired with the UN. And they took a number of decisions today, some of which have already been reported in your wires, which helped to clarify the Joint Afghan and international approach.

In the run-up to the conference in London next week and Kabul in the spring—no date yet for the Kabul Conference—in essence the Afghan government put forward a number of documents on which they have worked very hard, which helped to frame our ongoing work.

One decision taken by the JCMB this morning was the endorsement of a proposal to increase the Afghan National Army from its current ceiling of 134,000 to 171,600 by October 2011. The Afghan National Police ceiling will be increased to 109,000 by October 2010 and 134,000 by 2011.

Q: (Inaudible...).

JAMES APPATHURAI: Give the figures again?

Q: (Inaudible...).

JAMES APPATHURAI: Okay. ANA ceiling will be increased from 134,000 now—that's the currently agreed target, not the level at which they are, but the currently agreed ceiling is 134,000—that will be increased to 171,600 by October 2011.

The ANP ceiling, Afghan National Police ceiling will be increased to 109,000 by October 2010—I think it's around 80 now—and 134,000 by October 2011.

NATO allies have already endorsed in principle the idea of an increase in the ceilings, both for the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police, as being necessary. As you know General McChrystal had also recommended this, and so I think this will meet with general international support. In London it will also mean, of course, that NATO has to continue increasing the number of trainers and the funds devoted to supporting this increase as we go forward, but that will be one of the elements that will be reflected in London, endorsement of the higher levels of the ANA and ANP.

London will also be an opportunity to set out a framework for transition to Afghan lead in security. And I can tell you that today the North Atlantic Council has provisionally approved... well, provisionally approved the next step in the transition process within NATO. What it means is that the military chain of command can now begin detailed planning for transition to Afghan lead, including determining the specific conditions under which a district, province or any such grouping would be appropriate for transition.

But it is important to note transition will not take place based solely on military criteria. COMISAF will assess the military criteria. The NATO Senior Civilian Representative will assess the non-military criteria, the political criteria. And those assessments together would be the basis on which transition to afghan lead would take place. Of course, in full cooperation with Afghan authorities and very much based on their analysis as well. Again, London should set out a general framework for transition to Afghan lead.

Another element of agreement today... no no, sorry, not agreement. Another important issue discussed today and endorsed by the JCMB was the Afghan government's concept on peace and reintegration, the Afghan peace and reintegration program. This will have to be fleshed out in terms of what it means in concrete action on the ground, institutional structures and financing, but I expect reintegration to be prominently on the agenda in London and it should receive general international support, but that support will have to include money to help fund reintegration of those militants, Taliban and others, who choose to abide by the Afghan constitution and support the government that has been elected in Afghanistan.

The Afghan government will also present initiatives on economic development, on fighting corruption. There will be discussion of strengthening the coordination of civilian assistance to Afghanistan. As you know the United Nations is in the process of selecting a new head for the UN mission and NATO is looking to strengthen its civilian office as well, our civilian office as well, to be able to improve our support for the Afghan government and to improve the coordination of civilian assistance.

Another element will be regional cooperation. On the 27th of January Turkey will be hosting a meeting, I believe, in Ankara, of the countries neighbouring Afghanistan. This is a Turkish initiative, not a NATO initiative, but I think whatever is discussed and potentially agreed there will be a useful framework for discussions in London on improving regional cooperation as well, because obviously this is very, very important.

So I think I have covered London. Oh except to say, I think I mentioned this already, anti-corruption. There were specific... okay, I did mention it. Good. All right, so that's that.

To give you the Secretary General's agenda for London... well, actually, it's not very detailed. He's going to the meeting. He will speak in the morning on the security aspects, because that is the first session. I believe the conference is taking place in Lancaster House, highly restricted format. It's a very small building.

So, okay, that was that. Next, I wanted to turn to a conference that is being hosted here in Brussels by the Security and Defence Agenda, the SDA, on the 27th of January. It is co-hosted by the European Union and the United Nations on Women, Peace and Security. It is... subtitle being, Empowering Women in Peace and Conflict.

The panel and the main hosts will be Margaret Wallström, who you know—I can't pronounce, my Spanish is very bad, I'm glad Carmen's not here—Teresa Fernández de la Vega, who is the First Vice President of the government and who is, of course, there for the Spanish presidency, Secretary General of NATO, Madeleine Albright will be there, the High Representative Ms. Ashton will be there as well, and they are all, in essence, the co-hosts of this.

The aim of the conference is this: the EU and NATO want to focus greater attention on the issues of basically women in peace and security. And what does that mean? It means identifying concrete steps towards ending sexual violence in war, empowering women and highlighting their vital role in restoring stability.

There is a framework for this already and that is United Nations Security Council Resolution 1325 on Women, Peace and Security and a string of subsequent UN resolutions, including the decision to appoint a new UN Special Representative—whose name I don't know, I'm sorry—to coordinate efforts of the international community in this field. But implementation is lagging behind and both the EU and NATO, as I said, hosted by the SDA, want to focus attention on this.

NATO Strategic Commanders recently issued a military directive for the implementation of UN Security Council Resolution 1325 in all NATO-led operations. There have been gender advisor posts created to assist senior commanders in Afghanistan. We have specialist... female specialist teams out in the field again, establishing trust between... helping to establish trust between NATO-led forces and local communities. And I think it's important to stress the issue here is, I mentioned sexual violence against women, which does not nearly get the kind of attention that it should.

I'll give you a couple of examples. Between 20,000 and 50,000 women are estimated to have been raped during the war in Bosnia in the 1990s. In Liberia three out of four women have been exposed to sexual violence. In South Kivu in Congo, 40 rapes are reported every day. So that's one big, big problem.

The second issue, however, is not just trying to eliminate violence against women in conflict, but also to empower women to participate in the process to bring peace, to give them a voice in the negotiation process, in the settlement process, which in many cultures is not the easiest thing to do, but which evidence has demonstrated is helpful.

So the third element, of course, is very much giving women a more active role, or having... finding the right role... —no, that's not right either—establishing a more prominent role for women in the military operations themselves, which we are doing in Afghanistan, which has a clear security benefit to the operation. So this conference will focus on these issues from an EU perspective and a NATO perspective.

If you would like to attend, as I said, it's on the 27th. It starts at 12:30. And it will be, as I said, hosted by the SDA, so I am told the SDA is the place to call if you would like to participate.

Final point I will make. I think it's the final point, unless somebody sent me a corrective e-mail. Oh yes. The second... the penultimate point, the informal meeting of NATO Defence Ministers on the 4th and 5th in Istanbul, just to tell you it begins on Thursday at 19:30 with a working dinner, which should focus on transformation. And Friday, in essence, you have the working session of NATO Defence Ministers from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. where they will discuss a number of operational issues, I think principally Kosovo and Afghanistan. And then there will be a meeting in ISAF format, which will focus, obviously, exclusively on Afghanistan and I'll give more details on that when we have a more detailed program.

Final point, final points, which are purely administrative, the Secretary General will have his New Year's reception on the 1st of February. We'll give you all the timing for that, but please book it. We'll give you really, really good NATO food and NATO wine.

(LAUGHTER)

That's the first big laugh I've heard. We'll send out the details. I think it's around ten o'clock in the morning.

The deadline for accreditation for Istanbul is the 1st of February at noon. And there's something about renewal of permanent badges, where I would ask you to be in touch with my colleagues at the office, who will actually explain to you what that means, because I don't know.

That's what I had, and I'm afraid I only have 20 minutes for questions, but I'm very happy to take your questions on any subject.

Q: The attack in Kabul, which you called a military failure, do you think the intention was to undermine the lead role of the Afghans that they have there in the specific part of Afghanistan?

JAMES APPATHURAI: I hesitate to put myself into the mind of whichever person organized this, so I don't really know that the aim was, and I don't want to speculate.

What this episode illustrates to us is that the Afghan forces are capable of repelling what is actually quite a significant and well-organized, I must say, attack, so that none of their government buildings were breached, with very, very low level of casualties and without once calling on us to help them.

So the fact that they could do all of this is, in fact, a reason for encouragement in the capability of Afghan forces to defend against very determined attackers. And I hesitate to make this analogy, so please don't take it the wrong way, but we have to recognize how difficult it is to defend a city against this kind of what was basically a terrorist attack.

Q: Brooks Tigner, Jane's Defence. This is a very ambitious goal to increase the ANA from 134,000 to 171,000. I'm sure NATO probably can get the training in place, but that raises the question, paying their salaries and where's the equipment coming from, because otherwise you're just training a potential Taliban recruitment force of 171,000 and the... you know, the common fund is not where it should be, for this, and it needs to rise dramatically if you're going to equip these soldiers properly. So where's the money going to come from and where's the equipment? The donations are not coming in like they should either. Thank you.

JAMES APPATHURAI: Thank you. You raise a very important issue, and that is the money. And salaries alone are very important to the overall success of this effort. I wish I could find them here, because I have them somewhere in my book, but I have just recently seen reporting on the effect the that increase in salaries for the Afghan National Army has had on recruitment retention... recruitment and retention rates and it is dramatic. The fact that their salaries have gone up from $50 a month to between $160 and $225 depending on danger pay, has meant that recruitment rates have... or retention rates have gone up significantly. I wish I could give you the numbers. And desertion rates are down dramatically. So it is very, very important that sufficient funds are put to this.

I can't say that we have had a satisfactory response to our call to fully fund the sustainment and increase of the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police. The Secretary General will be pushing very hard on this, but in short, we agree that this is a problem. We also agree that we haven't had yet the kind of response that we need to help fund this increase.

Q: Follow-up question: why aren’t they getting old used equipment?

JAMES APPATHURAI: Yes. Equipment... a lot of equipment has been donated, as you know, and that is available on the website, in terms of I think it's tens of thousands of weapons of various kinds, ammunition, armoured personnel carriers, a few uniforms, helmets. This is in the millions of Euros worth of equipment, has already been donated. More will be necessary, and I am quite confident that they will make every effort to supply that. Everybody understands that this is the most... to put it in the most mercenary term—no, mercenary is the wrong word in this context—to put it in strictly financial terms, it's much more cost effective to provide a weapon to an Afghan soldier than to send a soldier of our own over there. Everybody understands that.

So I have... based on what we have seen until now we have a good track record of providing equipment. Where we don't have a good track record is providing the money to fund the increase and that's where I think the most heavy lifting will have to be done.

Q: James, on London next week, on the fringe of the Afghan conference, there's the Yemen conference. Is there going to be a NATO presence there? What's the NATO interest there? Is there a NATO angle on that at all?

JAMES APPATHURAI: Right now I think the short answer is no. I don't think there is a NATO angle there. I have raised the question as to whether there will be NATO participation in the meeting. No one has yet come back with a yes. That's the best I can say. But I don't know any more than that.

Q: The question of Pakistan, how is NATO securing the borderline and will it be an issue on the conference in London? And NATO doesn't have a mandate for this mission from UN, if my memory serves me right...

JAMES APPATHURAI: For which mission?

Q: For Pakistan, for being in Pakistan?

JAMES APPATHURAI: Being in Pakistan? Yes, no, we don't.

Q: Yes. So how will you solve the problem, because I think soldiers have to be there? Will it be soldiers of Enduring Freedom that save this borderline?

JAMES APPATHURAI: We have, as you quite rightly point out, a mandate that ends at the Afghan border, ISAF. We have opened two of three border control coordination centres, which are tripartite, Afghan, Pakistani, NATO. The third one is in the process of being opened. And we have good cooperation across the border without our forces crossing onto the other side.

I suspect that's what's going to continue. A very significant number of forces are flowing into the south and the east of the country and they'll be operating in various ways. We have intelligence cooperation with the Pakistanis as well. Securing the border is a very complicated thing, as you know, but these BCCs will help the coordination of operations on both sides so that they are mutually reinforcing rather than not.

Q: James, the peace and reintegration plan which you said on Afghanistan, it includes, of course, talking to the Taliban, and if yes, under what conditions?

JAMES APPATHURAI: The key point to note about all of these plans, is that they are Afghan plans and they are Afghan-led. And they are Afghan developed. And in fact we've just been in touch... I was just in touch with Kabul this morning, because I have a colleague down there, and they were very clear on this, that these are Afghan developed plans. Any contact with Taliban, or certainly when you talk about reconciliation, this is an Afghan-led process, and we will support the Afghans as they lead this process. It is not NATO that will be leading this process.

Q: James, concerning the new ceilings for Afghan forces, is NATO going to be in need of more trainers or longer stay for the trainers already in place?

JAMES APPATHURAI: First, we definitely need more trainers. There is no doubt about that. Trainers that will go into the field with Afghan forces and trainers that will stay in the classroom and also teach Afghan forces.

In terms of rotation times these are national decisions, but I know General McChrystal very clearly believes that the longer our soldiers can stay in country, the better, because—well, for all the reasons that are very obvious—they get to know their colleagues, their Afghan colleagues, they get to know the terrain, et cetera, et cetera. So I know that he would like to see the tours of soldiers extended as much as possible by all the allies.

Q: Is there a specific figure for what... how many more trainers you need?

JAMES APPATHURAI: I think there probably is now, but now that we have the new targets I think there's going to have to be a reassessment, and what was discussed in the NAC this morning was that based on the agreement to reach these new targets, we now have to assess, and the military authorities will assess, the resource requirements for us. So that's the next step. I wouldn't want to prejudice that because I don't know the answer.

Q: The conference in spring in Kabul, will this be with NATO participation, or will this be between Karzai and the Talibans, so one could read in the media that it was just a conference between the Talibans and the Afghan government and NATO wouldn't be involved.

JAMES APPATHURAI: Well, I don't see NATO being involved in a Taliban/Afghan government conference, but actually I think there's two issues. One is an international, but Afghan-led conference in Kabul, where… to which... or in which the international community would also participate, but which would be the next step in this process JCMB London-Kabul. I have seen speculation in the press, but now I stress I have only seen speculation in the press, that President Karzai would call a loya jirga, a national council, to engage in the reconciliation and reintegration process. But that is all I've seen is in the wires in the press, so I don't know if that's even true, and I'm quite sure that the details of that have not yet been worked out.

Last one, and then we have to run, I'm afraid.

Q: Have NATO's negotiations with Kuwait to base the AWACS there been completed yet, and when are you going to announce this decision?

JAMES APPATHURAI: You're my AWACS expert.

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Concerning AWACS in ISAF, the current situation... you know the current solution to the problem is okay. We are now exploring... still exploring new ways of basing for the medium and the long period.

Q: (Inaudible...)?

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: Still under consideration and discussion. At the political level.

JAMES APPATHURAI: That being said, it's worth noting that there are AWACS flying now, so, yes, there's no urgency (inaudible...)...

(SPEAKERS OVERLAP)

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: The solution to the... Yes, now.... (inaudible...)...

JAMES APPATHURAI: There is an urgency.

COLONEL MASSIMO PANIZZI: ... ...a longer term solution is still under discussion.