Remarks

Benedikt Franke (Vice-Chairman and CEO of the Munich Security Conference):
[I am] not only a proud co-host of this meeting, but also the number two at our institution. And who better to interview on stage than the number two at NATO? Great to have my good friend, the Deputy Secretary General, with us today.
I've been given two pieces of instructions. A: use the [full] 20 minutes that we get to talk about everything that the Secretary General didn't talk about. And make sure that you understand one thing, and it seems to be very important: Please don't line up behind the microphone. Go to the microphone once I pointed you directly. We'll practice this in a minute.
Because we're such good friends –

NATO Deputy Secretary General Mircea Geoană: But it’s good to be number two.

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): It is brilliant to be number two, the number one sits there, so all… I'm happy [being] number two.

NATO Deputy Secretary General Mircea Geoană: And thank you for lending Boris Ruge to us. Yeah, he will be the new Assistant Secretary General for policy and security, replacing Bettina [Cadenbach, Assistant Secretary General for Political Affairs and Security Policy]. Also we have our new the ASG for PDD [NATO’s Public Diplomacy Division]: Bonjour, Madame, et bienvenue. So it's good to be number two, indeed.

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): Excellent. Yeah, and please give Boris back when you're done with him.
So, you know, some of the things that the Secretary General didn't talk about – China, climate change, cooperation between the European Union and NATO. But for some reason, he also missed talking about Greek and Roman goddesses. And I have a couple to go through.
Amongst many other things, you are responsible for innovation at NATO. Let's talk about DIANA: DIANA, the Defence Innovation Accelerator for the North Atlantic, and the Roman goddess, not only of hunting, childbirth, but most importantly, of crossroads. Did you know that?
So we at the NATO, we in the Alliance are certainly at crossroads when it comes to innovation. And I'm wondering; are we taking the right turn? Are we going in the right direction? Are we learning the right lessons on innovation from the war in Ukraine?

Deputy Secretary General Geoană: Oh, thank you so much. You know, I chair the Innovation Board in NATO. I'm very happy that with the Munich [Security Conference], we have this partnership between our advisory groups. There's nothing more fundamental for our Alliance – and for the free world – than to maintain our technological edge. It's the essence of who we are, the essence of our economies, our militaries, and in the end, this is something that NATO is doing.
To be honest, I'm also pleasantly surprised at how fast Allies have moved – and we moved – on this one: We discussed about DIANA just two years back, I think. Now, it's up and running.
The first challenge is up for start-ups and innovators that would like to work with us. More than 100 test centres and accelerators across our great Alliance – in Europe and North America –, universities, research centres – the best and the finest.
Because if you look to what NATO countries do possess, we are basically in an ecosystem of innovation that has absolutely no rival. And this is why we are working on DIANA. And it goes hand in hand with the other total innovation: We have launched the NATO Innovation Fund, which is the first ever multinational sovereign venture capital fund. Sounds like a contradiction in terms? No, because we also feel the need to put a little seed money into the start-ups that are using DIANA. Smart idea: We help the young innovators from all over the Alliance cross the valley of death until - and unless, of course, – they will go to the real markets and the real venture capital world.
So yes, we are doing good. We are working with our partners. I remember inviting an Australian cyber slash-quantum company to brief us. We are talking to South Korea, to Japan, to many of our partners. So yeah, technological edge is the underpinning of everything we do in defence, in economy, in society, in democracy. So I would like everyone to know that we are really doing our best to move forward on that frontier. So Diana, as a goddess, I think, should be pleased with NATO today.

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): Excellent. You mentioned money first. Let's turn to another God, Plutos: the god of wealth and abundance and defence investment, I’ll have you know.
As we pointed out in our wonderful report that came out last week – sorry for the advertising here – the fence sitters. We make the point that a lot of us in Europe are still sitting on the fence when it comes to defence, particularly when it comes to investment. So how do we get more Plutos, particularly in Europe? How do we increase investment in innovation? You did mention that we put a little money into the Innovation Fund. How do we get more money in there?

Deputy Secretary General Geoană: Listen, we don't want NATO to be a substitute for what national governments and the private sector are doing, or what academia are doing. We think, and we are acting, as a catalyst for harnessing the innovation ecosystem across our great Alliance. So in a way, we are sending a demand signal: As we are sending a demand signal to our defence industrial base through the NATO planning processes through the new regional plans that our leaders will be adopting in a few hours from now, we're also sending a demand signal to the technological world when it comes to NATO.
As you know, we have Allied Command Operations in SHAPE, led by General Cavoli, and also have Allied Command Transformation in Norfolk led by General Lavigne, who is also working on DDA, defence planning, but also the Capstone Concept, which is the technological angle from NATO.
So what are we also doing to governments – and this is also we are trying to help Allies – [is to] avoid a false dilemma. Because until the war in Ukraine that Russia started so brutally, aggressively, there was lots of people thinking that the next generation of warfare and technology should be only high-end: High-end and less, let’s say, more substantive forces.
Now we have basically a situation back in Europe [of] high-intensity warfare, so you need to invest more to have conventional and multi-domain forces, and also to invest in high-end technologies. So what NATO does is making sure that we avoid for Allies the false dilemma of saying, “I should do either technology, high-end, or conventional deterrence and defence”. No: It's one thing, it's multi-dimensional, it's multi-domain, as we call it, and again, NATO is an aggregator and an organisation that sends a demand signal to our governments, to our private sector. So we don't see any fracture, which would be I think, artificial and counterproductive, between having strong conventional deterrence and defence forces and high-end space, cyber, sensors, integrated issues. So that's the beauty of NATO, that we are the great aggregator, and I think also [that] Greek mythology is helping us with finding this role for NATO.
We're doing this actively, and this Summit in Vilnius will be nothing short of exceptional. We expect our leaders to confirm the new Defense Investment Pledge, the Vilnius pledge, made in Wales – 2% minimum and 20% of the 2% as a minimum also for higher-end and new equipment, new technologies.
So we hope that this will be very positive for all our Allies, and also for our citizens, because in fact, the business of NATO is to keep one billion citizens safe. Security is the foundation of prosperity, security is the foundation of democracy, security is the foundation of normal life for our citizens. And also with our new Swedish Allies; we are looking forward to having them, too.

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): Perfect, thank you so much.
From the God of wealth and defence investment to the goddess of victory, Nike: When we had the previous panel, one of the prime ministers said: “Today, we are training the Ukrainians; tomorrow, they will be training us”. Can you maybe shed some light on how we are already interacting with the Ukrainians on innovation, and [how] innovation has proved helpful, and how to roll it out to the troops?

Deputy Secretary General Geoană: I would say we are in a very interesting cycle of what I call “circular lessons learned”. They learn a lot from us. We've been training Ukrainian troops after 2014, after the illegal occupation of Crimea by Russia in large numbers. I've seen Prime Minister Trudeau here just before, just before us, and Canada only has trained since 2014 tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops. So Ukrainians are learning a lot from us: Command and control, NATO doctrine, how to use smart equipment, and they're moving away from the Soviet era – not only [in terms of] equipment, but also doctrine, which is so obsolete and so under-performing.
But we’re also learning from them. Not only us, our militaries, but also our private sector. Lots of things we do for Ukraine are coming from governments, but also from private sector: For cyber, for space, for smart apps. And I think also NGOs [are] working embedded in the military defence of Ukraine like we do not do in NATO. So I think it's a circular “lessons learned” process. And we are looking forward to making these things even more structured so they learn from us, we learn from them, and together, we are stronger.

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): Perfect, many thanks. Now that I have warmed you up, let's turn to you [the audience], and let's begin to grill the DSG. Can I see a hand?

Deputy Secretary General Geoană: This is for number twos?

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): That’s for number twos, yes. Can I warn you that my staff has printed out a five-page list of Greek and Roman goddesses, major and minor, so if you don't ask questions, I'll just continue with the god of war, the goddess of wilderness, and some others.
So raise your hand, please, sir, and come to the microphone.

Speaker 1: Hello, Tomasz Smura, Casimir Pulaski Foundation, from Poland. I've got a question which was not asked in previous panel. I mean the question about – of course, we are in Vilnius, but we still have some homework due from Madrid, especially [with regards to] the new NATO force structure. So we decided to increase our number of troops in high-readiness status to 300,000 and actually, we  heard some rumours that there are still significant problems to deliver on this promise.
So I'd like to ask where are in the process of implementing CAP, you know, the decision from the Madrid [Summit], in this particular dimension? Thank you.

Deputy Secretary General Geoană: Thank you for the question. As I mentioned, our leaders will be approving over the Summit the most transformative change in defence planning and defence command and control infrastructure in generations. Because, as I mentioned before, high-intensity warfare is back in Europe, and technology is also part of this issue. And of course, as we have seen, over the last 20, 25 years, many Allies – especially European Allies – have been collecting the peace dividend. And there was not as much need to invest in an industrial base [and] in our militaries.
Now, we need to do that. So, against the regional plans that will be approved by our leaders – and I don't want to prejudge what leaders will do – but we are expecting them to approve this. The consequences of this is a new generation of defence plans: [The] northern region, Central European region and southern European region, the southeast Black Sea and Mediterranean as a continuum. We'll be starting to implement the plans. We'll be starting to appropriate resources and troops and equipment, to higher readiness, to higher numbers, with more training, with more preposition and equipment, according to the plans.
It doesn't mean that we have everything today that the plans will be indicating to us. We had the first fourth-generation conference just a few weeks back, and we have done a lot. We still [have] things to do. So the implementation of the plans will take some time. But once we decide politically, [in] NATO, that standard will become reality. And I'm confident – and we are confident in NATO – that Allies will be investing in the plans that our leaders will approve, that our military leaders have been working [on].
I have to thank General Cavoli and his team, because they have been delivering the plans for us, I think it's […] 20 months ahead of schedule. So that's a formidable piece of military work. And our leaders will be approving this, so I can give you with full confidence that our targets for structure [and] command and control will be met in time, in iterations, by all Allies.

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): Thank you so much. Over there, please. And thank you for not lining up behind the microphone. Full points on that.

Speaker 2: Cécile Maisonneuve, from the Montaigne Institute, a French institute for international relations. I'm going to bring another god, Hermes, the god of traders and merchants: Innovation is also related with free trade, and we see more and more the return of industrial policy subsidies. So how can NATO ensure that this new return of sovereignty, of industrial policy, doesn't challenge innovation and free trade, which is also the basis of our multilateral order? Thank you.

Deputy Secretary General Geoană: Thank you so much for the question. There is a new geopolitical and geo-economic reality around the world – not only Europe, [but] around the world. And we've seen this with the pandemic, we've seen this with the financial crisis, we are seeing it now with war in Europe. So we are seeing a different landscape in geopolitics and geo-economics.
So what we can say, and what I can say, and I think everyone would agree, that we’ll, all of us, have to pay a premium for economic security. Economic security doesn't mean not to do business and not to do trade and to basically hamper international commerce; that needs to continue. But we have to make sure that we are not basically, just by negligence or just by not recognising the new reality in the world, that we are not becoming vulnerable economically. In supply chains, we do not want to replace the hyper-dependency on Russian gas with hyper-dependency on rare-earths and materials from other players. So how to find the balance between continuing to do business – we need to do business, business is good is growing the economies, is creating jobs,– but in a way that will be making sure that we are not importing the risks, because geopolitics and geo-economics of the world are intertwined like never before.
And that's what we do in NATO, that’s what European Union is doing, and I see Charles Fries, my good friend, here in the audience. That's what we do, [what] the G7 is doing, just to find the right balance between doing trade, legitimate trade, goods trade, and also making sure that we put ourselves at bay from becoming over-dependent. And God forbid in case in time of crisis, you could have bad surprises, and this is something that NATO is also making all Allies and partners aware of.

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): Perfect, thank you so much.
Depending on the length of the next question, we have time for one or two questions and goddesses.

Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm Juxhina from the Atlantic Council of Albania. […] My question is: Will the Vilnius Summit [be] a missed opportunity for Ukraine, as the Bucharest Summit was years ago? And the main question that we all think about: Are we ready to trigger Article 5? Thank you.

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): Easy one.

Deputy Secretary General Geoană: […] Listen; I cannot prejudge what our leaders will decide in a few hours and in the next in the next few days here in Vilnius. I can say something that I know, and I also feel it: This will be a landmark, successful Summit for this Alliance. This will be building upon what we have decided in Madrid, which was also historical and transformative, and also will be also a bridge towards the Washington Summit of July 2024, when our great Alliance will be celebrating our 75th anniversary.
I don't want to prejudge what Allies will decide on Ukraine. I think Ukraine is moving closer to us. The Secretary General said it this morning, in this very forum. I'm confident that on all the big pieces that we have been preparing for one year in NATO, [that] our leaders will decide good news for Ukraine, good news for Sweden, good news for defense investment, good news for technology, good news for all partnerships: We've been meeting the Prime Minister of New Zealand, and we'll be meeting all our Indo-Pacific partners in a minute with the Secretary General.
So I would say, without declaring victory before the curtain falls on this beautiful Summit, that the Vilnius Summit will be remembered as one of the most successful Summits we had in some time. And this is why we're here. And I want to thank also our Lithuanian hosts for the impeccable organisation of this Summit.

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): Speaking of the curtain falling, we have one minute and one second for a very brief question and an even briefer answer.

Speaker 4: Thank you. Charly Salonius-Pasternak, Finnish Institute of International Affairs.
We heard earlier that the plans are based on two threats: Russia and terrorist organisations. Culture, language, plays a lot in how deterrence is perceived. How is NATO now going to change – or is changing – the way it communicates deterrence and STRATCOM more broadly to these adversaries?

Deputy Secretary General Geoană: Let me say just very briefly that it is not only geopolitics and geo-economics that are changing dramatically, but also the very definition of security is changing dramatically: We have cyber, we have space, we have climate change as security. We have so many [matters on] resilience that we are a lot in NATO about, and we're doing a lot with the Munich Security Conference, and also the GMF and Atlantic Council on many, many fronts together.
So I'm saying that it's not only STRATCOM, which is also important, but it's also substance. So nothing that relates to security, in the broadest definition of terms, is stranger to NATO. We have the obligation to do the bread and butter, deterrence and defence, making sure that we resist these aggressions from all directions. But the business of NATO is also to make sure that we are always adapting to a changing definition of security in a changing world and that's why NATO has been labelled until now – and that’s not STRATCOM or marketing as the most successful alliance in history.
Why? Because we showed unity in times of difficulty, and we have a gene of adaptation inside NATO. And before closing, because it's last second, I would like to thank also the audience [that is] not in this room. I'm very happy to see my friends from [inaudible], Romania and others. I know that this this public forum is a great success, and I want to thank my colleagues, the organisers, Carmen [Romero, NATO Deputy Assistant Secretary General for Public Diplomacy,] you're coming here. I think we should give you a round of applause, too.

Benedikt Franke (MSC Vice-Chairman and CEO): Let's give a round of applause to Carmen.
And like in every good action movie, our timer has stopped with one second to go. Thank you for joining us, to you all. Good luck for the Summit, and thanks for being such a loyal guest and friend.
Thanks, everyone.

Deputy Secretary General Geoană: Thank you.