Interview with General John R. Allen, Commander ISAF
Q : Six weeks into you role here as commander of ISAF and US troops in Afghanistan, what have you observed about how the campaign is going?
General John R. Allen, Commander ISAF : Well I’ve had the chance, in that time, to travel a lot actually. I’ve been to all of the regional commands which means really the four corners of the country and I’ve been very impressed with the partnership that I’ve seen with the commanders, their ANSF, the Afghan National Security Force counterparts, the partnership with the commanders, with their Afghan civilian counterparts, partnership with the terrific PRTs, Provincial Reconstruction Teams that are around so I would say that beyond the clear tactical gains that have been made, the security gains that have been made, which in many respects have provided opportunities for growth of governance and economic opportunity, the solid partnership has been the thing that has been really striking for me, all round the country and inside that partnership, a real commitment to working towards the future. To reduce the insurgency as much as we possibly can which provides the opportunity to governance to move forward for economic opportunity to move forward, for all of the things that are necessary to ultimately for stability and security and that really has been what has been striking to me in the first six weeks.
Q : So the gains that you talk about, where specifically have you noticed these gains?
General Allen : Well the gains are everywhere in some form or another, in terms of security which is obviously how we’re postured here to contribute, tremendous gains in the south in particular. In the areas around Kandahar, the in areas in the central Helmand river valley. There have been gains in and around Kabul, along the route 7 economic corridor, but primarily in the south and that’s where the main effort of this campaign has been focused now for well over a year and those gains have really given the opportunity for local Afghan leadership, in conjunction with our PRTs, to make some real gains and forward momentum in the process of developing governance and economic opportunity. So in the south in particular, the intent of last year’s efforts, the surge and then the main effort of the campaign being focused in the south, was to stop the insurgent momentum, the enemy’s momentum. It has been stopped broadly and in many places it’s been rolled back and what that has done is it’s given the opportunity to cover ground that needed to be covered in terms of building and economic and governance capacity.
Q : I read that statistically violence is down this year but August has been the deadliest month for US troops since the war began, we’ve had the downing of the Chinook over Wardak an incident here in Kabul in the last month at the British Council, there have been numerous attacks on civilians, IEDS that have gone off and killed civilians and there have been a couple of attempts to breach security at governor’s compounds, I think it’s a hard pill to swallow that violence is down...
General Allen : It’s a very clear issue that you raise and one of the intents in an insurgency by an enemy that has lost ground and remember that insurgents measure their success by their access to the population and in so many ways, around this country at this point, the insurgents have been ejected from the population through counter-insurgency operations, through the improvement of governance and economic opportunity, through the development of the Afghan Local Police, through the reintegration of many of the insurgent fighters that have come off the battlefield ultimately to rejoin their society, so I can understand that there could be a concern over these high profile attacks and in an insurgency that is in fact experiencing the difficulties that this one is experiencing, it is losing ground around the country, it has to resort to high profile attacks in order to attract attention to its cause and ultimately to sew discontent or to strike a blow against the morale of the civilian population and so that’s what’s happening. What’s key to understand is that while there have been what appear to be high profile attacks that might have been successful, every one of those attacks has been put down by the Afghan National Security Forces which responded promptly and courageously and effectively, but the ones that have not occurred where the Afghan National Security Forces have prevented or pre-empted the attack, which the civilian population will never know about, those have been many as well and so yes, those attacks have occurred, they’ve been dealt with swiftly and effectively by the Afghan National Security Forces and they are taking measures every single night when the Afghans go to bed, they’re guarded in the dark by their effective, growingly effective, Afghan National security Forces.
Q : Isn’t it a problem that when you have a complex attack or the incident such as the downing of the Chinook, that perception among the Afghans at the end of the day, becomes for them, reality that we’re losing the war against the Taliban here.
General Allen : It’s important for us to tell the right story and it’s important for the Afghans to tell the right story and increasingly they’re doing that, they’re telling the story about the effectiveness of the Afghan National Security Forces, the courage of those soldiers and police in responding to those high profile attacks and being effective when they do it but they’re also beginning to understand the Taliban tactics of victimising the civilian population, whether they’re using ten year old children as suicide bombers or indiscriminately using IEDs to target the civilians solely to create civilian casualties with the idea of terrorising populations. The Afghans understand that are increasingly throwing that off, they’re rejecting the whole ethos and the ideology of the Taliban and that’s a positive sign. But they do have those concerns about high profile attacks and it’s important for us to tell the story so that they understand that the perception of the real security, which is growing every single day in this country and largely is a result of Afghan national security forces, is a reality that they should be understanding and accepting.
Q : In his message for Eid, Mullah Omar was predicting victory as foreign troops start to pull out of the country and fighters get a better understanding of tactics over here, do you pay much attention to what he has to say, did you read his message for Eid?
General Allen : Let me just start off by talking about Eid. Eid is a celebration of a great religious holiday, it’s a holiday which follows Ramazan which within Islam is an opportunity for the faithful to truly dedicate themselves to the higher principles of the faith, it’s a wonderful conclusion to Ramazan. All across this country, Afghans are celebrating the great principles of Islam today and in the next couple of days, with their families, they celebrate Eid, what Mullah Omar has to say in his message is about the past, it’s about reasserting the Taliban ideology in this country which was a moment of darkness in the long history of Afghanistan. So there isn’t much that Mullah Omar has to say in his Eid message that deserves much attention frankly.
Q: The troop drawdown that was announced some months ago, 33000 by the end of next year, that leaves you with I think about 70,000 US troops here, how much will that effect the overall campaign here?
General Allen : When I took command, I announced right away my four priorities that afternoon to my commanders and I’ve been making sure Afghans and other commanders understand that those four priorities are to continue the momentum of the campaign, to use all the combat power that we have, for as long as we have it. To maintain the momentum of the campaign and in fact to increase the pressure on the enemy as much as we possibly can. The second priority is to get the Afghan National security Forces as ready as we can possibly get them at an institutional level and operationally to partner with them to get them more firmly into the lead on the battlefield in an area, in a way in which we ultimately hope they’ll be firmly in the lead at the end of 2014 and we think that they will. Third priority was to, with using the ISAF forces, to set he conditions for and ultimately support the process of transition as it was annunciated by the Lisbon Conference and the last priority was to be flexible and agile as time passes, as our troop numbers mature and as they come down, to posture ourselves so that we’ll be relevant for the operational environment in the future. So in the context of those four priorities, even though our numbers are coming down, we’ll adapt the campaign plan to account for those diminishing numbers so that we’ll get the most out of our combat power based on the operational environment and the mission for as long as we can.
Q : How far have you gone into planning where those troops will be redeployed from?
General Allen : We’re in that process now but final decisions have yet to be made.
Q : Are you expecting President Obama to make a similar request next year, another 30,000?
General Allen : No numbers have been discussed but clearly, as part of his long term plan for Afghanistan, the US force posture as a component of NATO of course and ISAF, that’s going to mature and it’s going to evolve over time. It’s too early to speculate on numbers but it will mature and those numbers will probably come down, the velocity and the steepness of that slope remain to be determined.
Q : And post 2014 I read a figure the other day of 10,000..
General Allen : Too early, we truly have not gone to that level of detail but we will expect that there will probably be some presence here for an extended period.
Q : On transition, there is expectation that the more hostile areas will have to be handed over to the Afghans sooner rather than later, while you’ve still got troops here on the ground to back them up if needed – is that true?
General Allen : No, at this point we’re, first of all the whole process of transition is a consultative process with the Afghans so it is not a unilateral process for NATO and ISAF so we’ll be talking to the Afghans about very carefully structuring the progress and the clusters ultimately of the Afghan map if you will, the provinces, the districts, municipalities, to sequence them in a logical order that makes sense both to the Afghans, obviously to the coalition forces that are here, but very importantly because ultimately he owns the process, to the President of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai.
Q : Are there any lessons to be learned from the first tranche of provinces, areas to be transitioned, that could be applied to choosing where the second...
General Allen : We’re looking at all of the lessons to be learned. The readiness of the Afghan National Security Forces in other parts of the country. Some of those are ready now for the challenges associated with providing the security inside a transition province, the maturity of the governance and economic development in certain areas, so we have learnt to integrate that with the Afghan National Security Forces readiness, our own partnership, relationship with the ANSF on the field, all of those were lessons learned from the transitioning, the first tranche which we hope to apply to make the success of the second tranche even more.
Q : Now Lashka Gah was transitioned a few months ago, since then there’s been a couple of attacks in the city centre there, how much does that impact on what you’re trying to do down there?
General Allen : Well again, as I’ve said in the previous question that the enemy is going to attempt to demoralise the population and he’s going to attempt to depict that in the end, he has sway over the security environment and the government doesn’t but again this government, in Lashka Gah, this government in Helmand, has exerted pretty significant security control over the population, over the mechanisms of economic development, over the governance, and it’s quite successful actually. So, a couple of high profile attacks doesn’t create an environment of insecurity and much is still be accomplished there in terms of development of the governance, governor Mangal in Helmand is a very successful governor and he’s not just focusing on Lashka Gah, he’s focusing on the whole province and what we will see probably is some significant additional aspects of Helmand be considered in the second tranche so it has been successful in Lashka Gah, notwithstanding those two high profile attacks, the security forces are in fact very effectively maintaining security for Lashka Gah and the environs in the central Helmand river valley and we see this as a success and we see this as very promising for other aspects of Helmand to be considered in the second tranche.
Q : Among Afghans there’s a perception that we could be seen to be running to the exit, what words of reassurance have you got for them that that won’t happen?
General Allen : Well two things, we’re clearly not running for the exit. With my four priorities that should indicate to the Afghans, and I very publically offer those priorities to any Afghan audience with whom I speak, but the idea is we’re going to maintain the campaign for as long as we possibly can, until we might get a mission change or until our numbers mature to permit us to do other things, we’re not running for the exit, we’re going to be here for a while. We’re going to work very very hard to ensure that the Afghan National Security Forces are ready both at an institutional level, but also operationally ready as well. And we’re going to provide terrific support to the process of transition. Transition is about success in Afghanistan and as the transition process continues it will be clearer to the Afghan people that the whole idea of increasing security in larger portions of the country within the successive tranches that are moving forward that the improvement of governance and economic development is really about the success and it is not about running for the exit. In any case, the United States, on a bilateral level, NATO, at a bilateral level, is in conversation with the Afghan government about the intent for a long-term strategic relationship as well so the Afghans who worry about whether we’re leaving ought to see what’s happening in front of them today, they should take heart in that, they should be encouraged by that, they should also listen to the discussions that are occurring at the senior governmental levels about a long term bilateral relationship with the United States and a long term bilateral strategic relationship with NATO and I think they should take comfort in that and there should be great hope in that.
Q : In recent reports, the US coalition has been accused of building up an army that the country cannot afford, I think President Karzai has spoken publically as well about his concerns here long-term, isn’t there a danger of so many millions of dollars of new equipment coming into the country and it just turning to rust?
General Allen : There might have been a danger in other places but in Afghanistan, there is a very comprehensive programme to create within the Afghan National Security Forces, supply discipline, maintenance capabilities, the ability for them to understand the responsibilities for operations and maintenance over the long period of time. It’s not just about the weapons, it’s not just about the radios, it’s about the physical facilities as well and we’re building facilities today which fit the requirements for the Afghan National Security Forces. They’re facilities that can be maintained by Afghans for long periods of time, will not cost a lot of money to do that. So part of the comprehensive plan for the development of the Afghan National Security Forces is in fact, to create an army and police over the long term, which could be sustained within the GDP and the donor, the segment of donor requirements that have been offered by the international community so it is an affordable force in the end.
Q : What do you think at the moment, obviously you’ve done lots of site visits to see the ANSF training going on, how do you assess where they are right now in terms of their capabilities?
General Allen : Well the older formations are doing better than the newer formations but the newer formations are different in that many of the soldiers today, and the police, are coming out of literacy training and this literacy training is very very important to the long-term health and capabilities of the ANSF in a country where the literacy rate is relatively low, all Afghan National Security Forces are now graduating from their basic training and can read and write and count at a first grade level, now that may not sound like much to us but in terms of reading a maintenance manual or being able to inventory equipment, this is essential so just at that level alone, the Afghan National Security Forces, and we’ve recently passed a mile stone of one hundred thousandth soldier having been in receipt of literacy training, that alone fits the army for the long-term. The other aspects though, with respect to the equipment, with respect to their discipline, with respect to their fighting abilities, all of those are growing and we’re maturing those as the units are fielded as they partner with our units in the field and ultimately as they go into combat.
Q : I suppose the hope is long-term you might not need so many numbers, within a few years time if the fight against the Taliban has been successful.
General Allen : Well that’s a decision obviously we would have to take very closely with the Afghan government but we’ll watch the operational environment, watch the enemy situation and clearly the long-term size and capacity of the Afghan National Security Forces will fit the requirements necessary to deal with the internal threat of the insurgency, and to ultimately provide for the territorial integrity and the sovereignty of Afghanistan. It’s not a decision that will be made in the near term but it will be a very clear decision ultimately in the larger context of what is necessary for Afghanistan’s security.
Q : Toward the twilight of the surge in Iraq, both General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker described corruption as the greatest challenge to the future of Iraq.....what is the greatest challenge to the future of Afghanistan?
General Allen : Well the conditions under which the insurgency emerged in some respects that was about corruption as well. Recently President Karzai has been very clear in his public statements with respect to Afghan government seeking out and removing the conditions under which corruption emerged and removing corrupt officials, it’s all about the development of governmental capacity and economic opportunity, I think there’s real opportunity here but it has to evolve, it has to go forward it’s going to be a challenge, it isn’t something which will be complete at the end of 2014, it’s going to be something that we’ll all ultimately as an international community, whether it’s the NATO community or the larger ISAF community or the international community in large, is something that I believe we will have to help Afghanistan with for a long time to come.
Q : The anniversary of the 9/11 attacks is approaching, what does 9/11 mean to you, where were you at the time it happened and how did you feel?
General Allen : Well I was the deputy commander, deputy commandant at the United States Naval Academy so we were thirty miles from Washington when the attack occurred in New York and the Pentagon ultimately and the field at Shanksville Pennsylvania. At first we thought it was a terrible navigational error and then very quickly we realised the United States was under attack. It was something that was new obviously to me, I’d been in the service well over thirty years at that point and at that point we realised that our future was going to be dramatically different than all that we’d experienced during the previous years of the cold war. It was going to be an era of long-term conflict, it was going to be an era of probably where we were going to have a long term commitment to both counter-terrorism but also seeking at a genuine and national level, to try to overcome the root causes that would create such a vehemence, such a malignant terrorist capability around the world. So things were going to be different, we knew they were going to be different, we knew this was going to be a long struggle and it has manifested itself in a number of places around the world and in Afghanistan it had a uniqueness to it where the US and coalition forces ultimately and swiftly responded to that attack, ultimately threw off the Taliban darkness if you will that had descended upon this country and permitted it to become a safe haven for Taliban and Al Qaeda, other terrorist organisations and since that time, the great efforts, truly great efforts and sacrifice of the international community to make a difference here, to give this government stability and security so that the people of Afghanistan will never again be under the heel of the Taliban boot but also to give them a future, a legitimate future, and to remove the possibility that Afghanistan will ever again be a terrorist safe haven, specially a place where Al Qaeda can plot attacks upon the west or upon the poor Afghan civilians. So it’s been a long war, it’s been ten years and many of us have served in a number of places overseas in the course of the prosecution of that war. But if you spend a little time here in Afghanistan today, you see hope in the faces of the people, you see great change over the last several years, you see progress as it will ultimately unfold under the transition concept of the Lisbon Conference, you see great partnership for the future between both the United States and NATO and international community to accomplish something that is enduring, something that is admirable, something that is good for the people of Afghanistan so out of the great darkness frankly of the 11th of September 2001, while we’ve got work to do here still, I’m encouraged about the future.
Q : At the start of the year, a lot of people were talking about the campaign here being at a ‘tipping point’, we’ve had quite a bloody summer here now, how would you actually measure where we are in terms of the fight?
General Allen : Sure. I’d be very careful about ever applying the term ‘tipping point’. It implies a single even ultimately will determine the outcome in a counterinsurgency, in the end counterinsurgencies require a combination of many different factors and forces ultimately to achieve the vision of the campaign. I believe we’re well within the capacity of achieving the vision of the campaign which is an Afghan government which is sovereign which is an Afghan government which can govern from Kabul right down to the village level. More work needs to be done there but that process is well entrained and well underway. It’s a campaign which envisages the opportunity for economic development and opportunity as security improves across the country, international investment in this growing economy and in this country and in these people, the interest is growing, it’s about creating opportunities for the Afghan National Security Forces to be admired by their people and to be the protectors of their people and the sovereignty of their country. That’s what I see when I look out across Afghanistan today and that’s what I think will ultimately define the success of the campaign and I think we’re well on track to do that frankly and I think I use the terms ‘prevail’, we will prevail in this campaign because the forces are well entrained and the right combination to do that. It’s not going to be about a tipping point, you might see a tipping point in your rear view mirror as you look at the history, some combination of factors might have created an opportunity which when seized, achieved dramatic effect, but at this particular point, what I would say is that the combination of the many different factors and forces associated with this comprehensive civil, military counter insurgency, is achieving ultimately the opportunity for us to prevail.