Press conference

Good afternoon.
Indeed, we just concluded our last ministerial meeting before the NATO Summit in The Hague. 

We agreed on an ambitious new set of capability targets.  
And this is so important.
These targets describe exactly what capabilities Allies need to invest in over the coming years.
Air defence, fighter jets, tanks, drones, personnel, logistics and so much more.
All of this is needed to keep our deterrence and defence strong and our one billion people safe.

Agreeing on what we need was a vital first step.
To deliver on these needs, Allies will need to invest much more in defence. 
 
And that is now the work ahead of us for The Hague.
To agree a new defence investment plan that will ensure we have enough resources to be able to deter and defend in this more dangerous world. 

I will propose an overall investment plan that would total 5% of GDP in defence investment.
3.5% of GDP for core defence spending. 
This is based on what it will cost to meet the new capability targets that Ministers have just agreed. 
And 1.5% of GDP per year in defence- and security-related investment like infrastructure and industry.

Ministers also discussed our enduring support to Ukraine. 
This year already, Allies pledged over 20 billion euros in additional security assistance for Ukraine. 
I also welcome the additional efforts of support Allies pledged at the meeting of the Ukraine Defence Contact Group yesterday. 
 
We met with Minister Umerov today in the NATO-Ukraine Council, along with EU High Representative Kallas. 
Minister Umerov highlighted the challenges on the battlefield, Russia’s continued attacks on civilian targets, and Ukraine’s ongoing pursuit of a negotiated peace.

We all want to see this war brought to an end with a just and lasting peace.
And fully support President Trump’s urgent efforts to stop the bloodshed. 
Finally, we convened a regular meeting of the Nuclear Planning Group. 
Nuclear deterrence remains the cornerstone of Alliance security. 
NATO will remain a nuclear Alliance as long as nuclear weapons exist.
And we will ensure that NATO’s nuclear capability remains strong and effective, in order to preserve peace, prevent coercion and deter aggression.  

NATO’s deterrence is strong today.
And through the decisions we have taken at this ministerial,
we are making sure it remains strong for tomorrow. 

So I look forward to a successful Summit in The Hague later this month. 

And then today, the Defence Ministers bid farewell to General Chris Cavoli, our Supreme Allied Commander Europe, who has done a fantastic job.
We are happy he will still be with us for the next few weeks.
And I'm also happy to announce that yesterday, the North Atlantic Council has approved the nomination of General Grynkewich, United States Air Force, to the post of Supreme Allied Commander Europe.

And with this I am ready to take your questions.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay, let's start. BBC, third row blue jacket,

Jonathan Beale, BBC
Good afternoon. Could you tell us, Secretary General, if this new 5% target also applies to the US, which has been lecturing Allies to increase suspending to 5%. They only spend 3.4% at present. So are they going to commit to this new target of 5%? And also, is there a danger that this is just gesture politics, because all the leaders who will agree this are unlikely to be in office by the time they have to deliver it, which I assume is a sort of ten year program. If you can clarify that, I'd be grateful. Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
But I have a cunning plan for that, And the cunning plan is that, and this is different from what we did with the Welsh pledge, that nations will commit to yearly plans, showing the increase each year to make sure that you come to the new target of 5%, ultimately being the 3.5% and 1.5%, so to prevent, to say to it to the Canadians and the Dutch here, ice hockey and field hockey, to prevent the hockey stick at the end of the period when you have to reach the target.

Jonathan Beale, BBC
Sorry you didn’t answer my question on…

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Yes, of course, this is for the whole Alliance, including the US.
Jonathan Beale, BBC
US is committed to increase defence spending to 5%?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Yes, 3.5% core defence spending, 1.5% security and defence related spending.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay. Terry, just next to him.

Teri Schulz, DW
Thank you very much. More math for you. On particularly the division of who spends what, where. For example, until now, countries have been able to decide themselves what goes into their core defence spending, their 2% for example.

So if countries are already counting, for example, military assistance to Ukraine in the 3.5%, they obviously won't be able to count it in the 1.5%. So I'm interested in knowing what will go into that category. There's been a lot of debate on this already. Some countries have said, you know what about climate mitigation, climate change mitigation, this also affects our military? Are you going to define more clearly what can count as the 3.5, what can count as the 1.5, and how far are you willing to stretch on that? And one Ally has already said they think they can meet their current capability targets with their current 2%. Is that even credible?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Well, I'm not going now into all the details, because of course, Allies will consult and discuss over the coming weeks leading up to The Hague Summit, but generally speaking, the idea is not to change the definitions of the current 2%. And I told you, we have this discussion, and at this moment, I'm not going to go into more details.

Teri Schulz, DW
That is still ongoing, and Allies are consulting with each other on those details.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Great. We're going to take one question at a time. Terry,

Teri Schulz, DW
[inaudible]

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
But again, what I announced today, and I'm very precise about this, is that I will propose to Allies a 5% defence spend target. Consisting of 3.5% core defence that you can compare it with the old 2%, and 1.5%, basically on security and defence related matters like military mobility, making sure that the defence industrial base is developed, making sure that our societies are well prepared for situations where war might potentially break out.

That's what I will propose today. And obviously, there are always many details to be discussed amongst Allies. They will consult on this over the next couple of days and weeks, and we will, no doubt, we will solve all those issues before the Summit.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay, we'll go in the second row here, the gentleman without the tie.
Christoffer Wendick, SVT
What about the 1.5% component? It all looks like a mathematical way of making the spending target adding up to Donald Trump's 5% goal. So, I wonder, how did you reach, or did you come to that number?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Well, the 3.5% is of course, directly related to the capability targets, and when you look at these capability targets, but also where we are in terms of delivering on the capability targets of last round, there are still many, many gaps, and with the Russians reconstituting themselves, we cannot afford the risk that we still have those gaps in a couple of years.
So we in the foreseeable future, have to reach a target of 3.5% when it comes to the core defence spending.

But then, and this is also what Chris Cavoli explained very well today with the defence ministers, our Supreme Allied Commander, General Cavoli said, of course, you need the core defence spending, but let's be honest with each other. If a tank is not able to cross a bridge, if our societies are not prepared in case war breaks out for a whole of society approach, if we are not able to really develop the defence industrial base, then the 3.5% is great, but then you cannot really defend yourselves, and that means that, okay, it's always a bit of a guesstimate. You cannot precisely point. The 3.5% is really rooted into the capability targets, but it is clear that if you spent about 3.5% on your core defence, that clearly you have at least to spend half, a little bit under half, so 1.5%, on these defence related issues.

Christoffer Wendick, SVT
[Inaudible]

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Yeah, well, that's good, and in this case, he was right.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay, thank you so much. Let's go here in the fourth row, the woman with the scarf.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Madam.

Maria Vasileiou, Ta Nea
Yes, Maria Vasileiou, Greek Daily Ta Nea. I would like to ask you about the time frame, because we understand that your proposal is to go up to 2032, but we heard ministers saying today that it should go up to 2035, so what is your position on that?

And also the fixed targets that you suggested on the annually fixed increases on spending that you would like to see? Are you going to propose them? Are they going to be proposed collectively by NATO, and they are going to be the same for each country, or the country, each country will define how much they will increase their spending every year. Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Yes. Well, what I want today to do today, because we have agreed on the capability targets, to reach those capability targets, and this is true for each country. You have to spend, over a certain amount of years, 3.5% of your GDP on core defence to be able to implement those capabilities. This is true for all nations, for all Allies.

That's what I'm going to announce today, what I have announced today just a minute ago, in this, in this press conference. And also the 1.5% defence and security related investments. What I do not want to do today is to go into more details, because obviously, Allies will have discussions amongst each other. We will consult with each other on some of these details. For example, what is the end date that you want to have reached it? How do you prevent a hockey stick? So nothing happening the first couple of years, and then the last year, all of a sudden you have a huge increase, which is then in terms of absorption capacity, you are not able to spend in that last year. So all these issues, of course, we have to discuss. We will do that. And I'm absolutely convinced.

There was such broad-based support today in the meeting, because Allies understand this is necessary. And look at the Russian threat. The Chinese built up. We live in a different world. We live in a more dangerous world. It was the German Chief of Defence saying a couple of days ago that by 2029 the Russians might be able to mount a successful attack at NATO. So we are safe today, but if we don't do this, we are not safe in the foreseeable future, and that's why we have to do this.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay, let's go to the second row. This woman in the blue jacket.
Galyna Ostapovets, Novyny.Live Ukraine
Yes, thank you for this opportunity. Galyna Ostapovets, Novyny.Live Ukraine. What kind topic did you discuss with Minister Umerov today?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Yes well, we discussed yesterday, of course, very much the situation of the ongoing support. That was in the Ukraine Defence Contact Group, chaired by the Defence Ministers of Germany and United Kingdom, Pistorius and Healey.

Today, we had a NATO-Ukraine Council meeting with the Defence Ministers. It was very good. We really went into detail. How do we make sure that the support for Ukraine is not only there now, but is also there to stay? How do we make sure collectively that if what we all hope will happen, and we are really commending President Trump for his efforts here, that a long-term ceasefire or even a peace deal would happen?

How then do we make sure that Ukraine has what it needs for that peace deal to be durable, to be lasting? So, these were the types of issues we discussed. There was widespread support, again, for what Ukraine is doing. Total condemnation of the Russian unprovoked onslaught on Ukraine. So, it was a very positive meeting on a very serious subject. Thank you.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Alright, the gentleman just behind her in the brown jacket.

Pavel Sviardlou, Euroradio for Belarus
Thank you for the opportunity. Pavel Sviardlou, Euroradio for Belarus, in exile from Warsaw. So, I will switch the topic a little. How do you assess a threat from the territory of Belarus in connection with the exercise Zapad 2025, and Russia's intention to place nuclear weapon on Belarusian territory?
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Well, of course, NATO monitors Russia's military activities very closely, including the exercises. The problem here, of course, is, and we know this for already some years, that there is a pattern of a total lack of transparency. That is really a big issue. And the skill and scope of previous Zapad exercises have significantly exceeded what had been announced by Russia, but we are monitoring this very closely.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay. Fourth row, blonde woman in a teal outfit. Yeah, Danish TV, please.

Lise Hessellund, TV 2 
Thank you. Lise Hessellund from TV 2 Denmark. I would like to ask you about, again, these capability targets. I understand that they're classified, but I also understand that you have agreed today to enhance NATO's role in the Arctic and also in the North Atlantic.

I wonder, can you just tell us a little bit about what are the requirements now? How have they changed from previously? What, I know you can't talk about the gaps, but what are the needs? And maybe also, what are your expectations to the Allies who have to patrol this very large area?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Yeah, indeed, I will not go too in detail on every area where NATO is active, in the Euro-Atlantic, but more generally speaking, and this is a bit of repeat, I said it also yesterday. But I think it is important to stress the point that there is content behind this.

And so, the 2% in 2014 came out of the air a little bit, yeah plucked from the air. This 3.5% core defence spending is really deeply rooted in a process which has taken four years to complete, the NATO Defence Planning Process, which now has led to agreeing unanimously with all the Defence Ministers about the capability targets we have to reach.
From which we can assess what the gaps are. And let me just again name a few big ones. The long-range missiles I mentioned before. We know we have, of course, issues in the whole world, but also in NATO territory when it comes to air and missile defence.

Of course, we know that in an increasingly complex theatre of warfare, that command and control systems are not only costly. You constantly have to redesign them. And you have to make sure that you make use of the latest technologies. So, these are huge investments. And then, particularly when it comes to the European part of NATO, there is the issue of manoeuvrable land formations.

So, in all these areas, we need considerable investment. This is true for every Ally, from Greece, Portugal and Spain, up to and including the countries in the Baltics and Finland, et cetera, and of course, Canada and the US. And that means that to bridge that gap between where we are now and where we have to be, clearly, you need a consistent spending, which we have to build up over a number of years, because you have an absorption issue. You cannot say if you are 2% now, take my own country, the Netherlands, which is now over 2%, that you cannot in one year spend 3.5%.
Because, but you want also the Netherlands and other countries to each year take credible steps getting there. And that's necessary, because otherwise it's like in with the Wales pledge that in the beginning, nothing happened, and then Trump became president. Trump 45 in 2017. And then all of a sudden, countries started to spend a lot, much more. And here we don't have to do this because of an audience of one. We have to do this to keep 1 billion people safe. But these are really huge investments when you look at the price and then the maintenance, and of course, the thousands and thousands, the tens of thousands, the hundreds of thousands of new military personnel you need to get into your military. You've seen some of the discussions in Germany at the moment, they are talking about, potentially, and I'm just quoting them, so I'm not saying this is exactly the right number, but you can see this in the press.
They are talking about a couple of a hundred thousand increase in their military in terms of the men and women in uniform being a part of the German military. And no, and this doesn't come for free.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay, third row on the aisle.

Dan Michaels, Wall Street Journal 
Dan Michaels, Wall Street Journal. Hello, Goedemiddag. looking ahead to the Summit. Do you yet have a consensus agreement on the 5% target, or do you expect this to be contentious before that, and looking ahead to the Summit declaration, do you expect references to Ukraine in it, and to Russia being a threat to NATO as past NATO Summit declarations have said? Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
There's broad support. I think Pete Hegseth when he left the building today, he said, near consensus. So we are really close, but always when you, this is a big decision, what we did today was a big decision, agreeing on the capability targets. I mean, this is. We use this word often, historic, but I think we are allowed today to use that word, that the decision today is historic. When you look at the capability targets we agreed on, this is such an enormous increase.
And then, of course, from there you need to, okay. You cannot just say these are the new capability targets, and there is no money. So I have total confidence that we will get there, also on, on the 5% and it will hammer out some of the details we still have to work on. So now, I'm really confident, and we have to do that, because otherwise we all know we will be safe for next couple of years. But then we need to use those years to learn Russian, if you don't do this. 

Yeah, on the Summit declaration. I mean, this is all early stage, but what I want from this Summit is really to be a splash. NATO, totally strong, fair, more lethal, spending what we need to spend to be able to defend ourselves. So, this incredible increase in defence spending, up to this 5%, but also when it comes to defence industrial production, because this is my other big worry I have, that we are simply not producing enough.

And that, in itself, is also presenting a problem when it comes to our deterrence and defence, if we don't get a grip on this. So I will completely focus on that issue with my firm commitment the next half year, to make sure that we get the defence industrial base going, not myself on my own, but at least being somebody within NATO, encouraging our Allies along to really get this going and make sure that we build this cross-Atlantic alliances.

We have already many, but they're simply not producing enough. And thirdly Ukraine. So these three issues we will really concentrate on. So this will be a very focused Summit. And again, to use that word, I think I can. Today was historic, and the Summit will also be historic.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay, let's come to the center. First, the gentleman in blue here in the second row.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Also without a tie.

Adam Parsons, Sky News 
Adam Parsons from Sky News. Secretary General, you're in a building full of people who want to spend more on defence, but you are at heart, a dyed-in-the-wool politician. So, what do you say to all the people watching this around the world, who would much rather that hundreds of billions of pounds were spent on schools and hospitals and roads rather than weapons?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
I would say the following: That we live in a different world. Since a couple of years, the change is staggering, the threat of Russia, the fact that they were willing to take the next step after all the threats starting in 2019, 2020, 2021, but in 2022 in February, they launched this full-scale attack, unprovoked in Ukraine.

Of course, it started in 2014 but the full onslaught in Ukraine started to happen from February 2022. That that country, Russia, at the moment, and just, and I've said it so many times, but just imagine a number that they are producing in the core ammunition, which is the base of all your warfare, that they are producing in three months what the whole of NATO, which is a 25 times bigger economy than Russia, than that whole of NATO is producing in a year.

If we don't take actions now, if we don't do this now, then the politicians today in the room, but also all the leaders I speak with. I yesterday at the dinner with Emmanuel Macron and I will meet many leaders over next couple of weeks in a run up to the The Hague Summit. And I've spoken to many leaders, of course, in the last, last three, four months.
These leaders, these defence ministers, these foreign ministers, they realize that they have to go to the populations. And this is what leaders do. This is why you have politicians to present the facts to your people and say, hey, we have rich societies, we can do this, but if we don't act now, the next three years, we are fine, but we have to start now, because otherwise, from three, four or five years from now, we are really under threat. And then maybe this was a bit, maybe using a bit rhetoric here, but I really mean this, that then you have to get your Russian language course out, or go to New Zealand.

And people sense, in my country, the Netherlands, people sense this, feel this here, not here, yes, also, but also here, and here. That there's the threat is there. And then, when you spend now 2% on defence, and you go to 5%, and of course, there is the 1.5% there, which is really defence and security related, which is crucial to make sure that you can maneuver and that you have your societies prepared. It's not undoable. Yes, it is a lot of money, but it's not undoable.

We have rich societies. We can do this. And I need your help, please. And of course, you decide what you do, but journalists, you have also all this information. I know that you're bringing it out, and it is extremely important.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay, I know we have far more questions than we'll have time for. We have one or two more. We'll go to the center in the third row, please.

Sugita Sachiyo, NHK
Thank you. I would like to ask about Ukraine. Do you agree with the Europeans that any agreement should respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine and to not recognise Russian occupation of Crimea?

And do you think could this position affect China's actions as countries in the Indo-Pacific face territorial issues with China?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Well, obviously, what happens when there is a long-term cease fire or even a peace deal on Ukraine, will have an impact on how China and others. They will watch this. And if we are not careful, they might think we could move on Taiwan, for example. And I was in Japan, I think now, two months ago, a very successful visit with the Foreign Minister and Defence Minister and the Prime Minister. And I visited the defence industrial base in Japan. I was really impressed.

But of course, you guys are close to this. South Korea is close to this, the Republic of Korea, but also Australia, New Zealand, and we are working closely together with them. So, the fact that Russia and North Korea and China and Iran are working together, and the three of them supporting the Russians in this terrible war against Ukraine, is a very relevant factor. So we have to think very well.

But I think it was crucial that President Trump broke the deadlock, that he started to pick up the phone, engaged with Vladimir Putin. This will take time. This is very difficult, to bring this whole thing to a durable and lasting peace. But I know he is navigating this tirelessly, and we are all encouraging him along to keep doing this and making sure that that we will bring this to a lasting end. But it doesn't help if I'm then going to say, sitting there in my reclining chair: ‘and it has to be this and this, and this.’ It doesn't help.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay, second row, third from the end.

Lara Jakes, New York Times
Thank you. Hi. Laura Jakes from the New York Times, nice to see you. Could you explain a little bit, if I'm understanding this correctly, how aid to Ukraine is considered part or a definition of the national or domestic core military spending? I understand that has been the case for some countries so far. Can you talk a little bit about to what level that has been part of domestic core military spending?

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Yes. Well, what I will announce today, or have announced today, just 20 minutes ago, is this 3.5 and 1.5% defence spending. And as I said, there will be discussions and consultations between Allies in the run up to the Summit in The Hague. But when it comes to Ukraine, I can assure you, it will be strange and not wise if we would take decisions here in how we navigate, how we organise this, how we define all of this, if that would work against Ukraine.
That would not be wise. So I'm not giving you now the full answer, because this is all part of some of the discussion still ongoing. And I'm very open with you. I'm only going to announce now the numbers and when it comes to what is the exact end date and the exact intermediate steps and Ukraine and all that, we will announce that later.
But you can be assured that nobody of the 32 Defence Ministers wants this to be organized in a way where the support for Ukraine would be less than it is today.

Lara Jakes, New York Times
[inaudible] I'm just trying to understand how support for Ukraine factors into domestic military spending for the Alliance members.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
But at the moment we have, we have a system in place, and countries have liberty to navigate that. And my basic assumption is that we are not going to change the rules when it comes to the old 2%, the new 3.5% and that the discussion is very much focusing on what is part of the 1.5%.
And there we have some big issues already defined. This is around logistics and making sure that you can move from A to B, and your railway systems and bridges, etc, capable of doing that with preparing societies and building the defence industrial base. And it will be potentially other issues which will fall under that.

NATO Acting Spokesperson Allison Hart
Okay, we're really out of time. We'll take one final question. Let's go to the front here second row.

Lili Bayer, Reuters
Thank you very much. Lili from Reuters. Maybe to close off on a slightly different theme. Ministers today also approved a new hybrid strategy for the Alliance. Could you share, perhaps some details and what is new in this strategy? And also before we leave, I wanted to follow up on my colleague's question and ask whether you expect support for Ukraine to be explicitly written into the Summit declaration? Thank you so much.

NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
Well, obviously the Summit declaration is there when it is there, but I already mentioned the headline items. The Summit declaration will be focusing primarily on three big issues, spending, defence industrial production, obviously, making sure that Ukraine has what it needs to stay in the fight, to bring the conflict, this terrible war of aggression by the Russians, to a durable and lasting peace. But of course, these are issues which Allies are still discussing and consulting about, so there's no final version of a statement.
And that's fine, because the Summit is in three weeks.

When it comes to hybrid, what I think is extremely important is two things. First, when we discuss hybrid that we realise that that is basically an umbrella for sometimes an assassination attempt on the CEO of a big company, sometimes the jamming of commercial airplanes in parts of NATO airspace. Sometimes even cyber-attacks, for example.

And I mentioned that before, the example, you know, at the National Health Service in United Kingdom. So we have seen this. We have seen the Skripal case in 2018, March 2018, in the UK, which was, of course, also an assassination attempt. So these issues, we really have to consider that this is, next to the traditional warfare, is increasing, that we have to know what is happening, that we have to know how we can make sure that those doing this, if it is the Russians, whoever are behind this, that we not only notice, but that we really don't accept it. And that we will find ways to make sure it stops. And that's what hybrid strategy is all about.