Joint press conference

Chair of the NATO Military Committee,
Admiral Rob Bauer:

Good afternoon, Ladies and Gentlemen,

During this meeting of the NATO Military Committee, the Allied Chiefs of Defence discussed NATO’s readiness to deter and defend the Euro-Atlantic area and to safeguard the region’s one billion inhabitants.

We addressed NATO’s ongoing missions and operations; the NATO Defence Planning Process, and the implementation path for a multi domain-enabled Alliance by 2030.

We actively discussed the NATO Capability Targets. And that they will lead to a more even distribution of capabilities.

European nations and Canada will develop capabilities that now only the US has.

But this meeting was certainly not about NATO alone.

For the first time ever we had military leaders from 26 NATO Partner Countries and the European Union at the table.

The countries that were represented were: Algeria, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Colombia, Egypt, Georgia, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Malta, Moldova, Mongolia, Morocco, New Zealand, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Serbia, Switzerland, Tunisia and Ukraine.

We have so many stars at the headquarters this week, we’re practically a galaxy.

What this meeting shows is that NATO and its Partners around the globe are growing closer every day.

We all see that Russia’s war against Ukraine has global repercussions.

And that there are no signs that the Kremlin is preparing for peace.

President Putin has put the Russian economy on a war footing.

And Russia is cooperating more and more closely with China, Iran and North Korea.

NATO is also deeply concerned about the role that China plays in international security.

China’s military industrial base is growing and actively supporting the Russian military industrial complex.

And China is rapidly expanding its military arsenal (including nuclear) without any form of transparency.

NATO has explicitly said to China:  you cannot have it both ways.

China cannot on the one hand say it wants to maintain good relations with the West and claim to uphold the UN Charter.

And at the same time keep fuelling the war in Europe.

The increasing alignment of Russia, China, North Korea and Iran seeks to undermine the democratic norms and values we hold dear.

This requires a united, strong response.

And that is why we are investing more time and energy in military cooperation, interoperability and exchange of knowledge and expertise with our Partners.

Yesterday and today we explicitly looked at how we can tackle pervasive instability around the globe together.

And how we can strengthen one another.

And this goes especially for our relationship with Ukraine.

Today, Allied Chiefs of Defence spoke at length with their Ukrainian counterpart, General Oleksandr Syrsky.

We have reaffirmed that NATO will do everything it can to help and invest in Ukraine for years to come, whilst protecting the international rules-based order.

Including through the Security Assistance and Training for Ukraine, and the Joint Analysis Training and Education Centre.

It is in the political and military interest of the Alliance to support Ukraine not only now, but also in the future.

We are showing the world that democracy can and will win.

And that democracy is worth fighting for.

Ladies and Gentlemen, collective defence is truly a task for the collective.

It requires Allies standing side by side.

It requires active cooperation with Partners.

And it requires active participation from our whole societies,including the private sector.

I am confident that we have it within ourselves to make the changes that are necessary and ramp up our resilience.

And with that, I would like to give the floor to the Supreme Allied Commander Europe.

General Cavoli, Chris, the floor is yours.

 

Supreme Allied Commander Europe,
General Chris Cavoli:

Thank you, Rob, good evening, everybody.

It’s great to have an opportunity to speak with you after the productive sessions we had here this week, especially beneficial as Admiral Bauer pointed out, because our partners not just our Allies, were present.

But first of all, before I begin, this is Admiral Bauer’s final CHOD session with the Military Committee, and he’s in his last days here in his position as Chair of the Military Committee and I would like to publicly recognise him and thank him for his service, both to his home Nation of the Netherlands and to this great Alliance.

Over the past three and a half years as the CMC, he’s been a terrific leader and he’s been a great friend. Rob has overseen profound change within NATO, and in large part because of his efforts, the Alliance is the strongest place it’s been in more than 40 years.  And I would just like to express my deep professional respect and personal admiration for you and the work you have done.

 

Chair of the NATO Military Committee,
Admiral Rob Bauer:

Thank you Chris.

Supreme Allied Commander Europe,
General Chris Cavoli:

So, since we’ve reoriented Allied Command Operations onto collective defence, something we have spoken about before, the transformation has been remarkable.

We’ve used our regional plans as the foundation and we have driven fundamental changes to our structures, to our processes, and to our procedures.

The system of collective defence that we set out to modernize is now largely in place, and we’re focused on increasing and improving our readiness within that system.

So, with this upcoming year, we will have a rigorous exercise programme to enhance our readiness: Allied Command Operations has nearly 100 separate exercises planned in 2025.

To highlight just a few, this month, an Exercise called STEADFAST DART is training our ability to mobilize the new Allied Reaction Force led by Italy, by Lieutenant General Lorenzo D'Addario; in May, Steadfast Deterrence will test SHAPE’S capability as a strategic warfighting headquarters; and, there are eight distinct events in 2025 that will rehearse scaling up our four land forces, the multinational battle groups, up to brigade size.

This is an intensive schedule, it’s ambitious, but it’s absolutely necessary so that we can make sure our forces are trained and ready to defend our citizens.

One example of how we’re are actively defending our citizens with operations is our response to the recent undersea cables damaged in the Baltic Sea.

ACO, under my authorities granted to me by the North Atlantic Council as SACEUR, ACO commenced a new multi-domain, enhanced vigilance activity, called Baltic Sentry. Whilst we are doing this exercise, we’re also strengthening our military presence in the Baltic Sea, to address potential threats and deter any future destabilizing actions.

Finally, as officially announced last night, NATO security assistance and training for Ukraine, NSATU, has begun to assume responsibilities from the international donor coordination center in Wiesbaden, Germany.

This new headquarters is streamlining international support to Ukraine and it will help Ukraine achieve full interoperability within NATO standards so I have many thanks for their Nations for quickly sending their personnel to stand it up NSATU, it was stood up in near record time. And now we are assuming the missions to defend the logistic enabling nodes across the eastern flank of our Alliance.

Just last week, I returned from a visit to Kyiv, alongside Lieutenant General Buzzard, the general officer who commands NSATU. We held very productive conversations with Minister Umerov and with General Syrskyi, the Supreme Commander in Chief of the Ukrainian military. Together, we are putting Ukraine in the best possible position for its future.

So, thank you all very much, I look forward to your questions.

 

Supreme Allied Commander Transformation,
Admiral Pierre Vandier:

Ladies and Gentlemen, thank you for giving me the opportunity for the first time to speak to you as SACT.

So I am new in the position, I arrived in September and so I have just written my 90 days letter sent to the SecGen before December.

First, I would like to thank you Rob, for what you are doing, what you have done, as CMC, making the three of us being one, I think it’s a powerful moment for the Alliance, having the three commanders which are acting as one, nothing we do is not known by the two others so is very important moment in the Alliance.

In the ACT perspective, I am feeling strongly that we are in a race. We have launched a race, we are in a race, we are in a warfighting race. That means we are racing to adapt, to transform, to invent in order to out pace the enemy, to be quicker than him.

As we see it in Ukraine, we are facing new military tools. The example of a country like Ukraine that is able to set a full denial of the Black Sea, and which in a strong attrition game against the Russian Navy, is a good example what is going on in the new warfighting perspective.

My first task is to support Ukraine, as our partners do in ACO and NSATU do. I am doing that with JATEC. JATEC has been approved by the NAC, the Council on December 16, and will be launched mid-February. And so, we will get there in Bydgoszcz, in Poland the first tools to make this centre work.

So JATEC is about merging the best of NATO warfighting experience with civilian experience because it’s a military civilian centre in contact with Ukraine issues and their long-lasting efforts to prevail.

So, it’s a long-term effort and we will bring some programmes, some of them will be secret, in order to develop skills, capabilities in order to prevail. And that will bring to the NATO enterprise strong military experience from Ukraine so it will be of benefit to both.

So as I said, new tech is coming to the field, meaning new space, you’ve seen how Ukraine uses new space for their operations, robotics and AI, Quantum and the list is bigger.

And so my job as SACT is to make sure what we have prepared for tonight still fits for tomorrow, means in one year, four years, ten years. And so we will still have a military edge, we need to keep our military edge. In order to have the best stuff, to have the best tactics and concepts, to have the best training, and to have the best adaptation DNA, I think it’s the most important thing. So, it’s a speed adaptation game.

To do that I have two tools which are in my hands. The first one is the NDPP, so the NATO Defence Planning Process. We are in phase 3 and we are at the moment been given the task to translate SACEUR’s plans to capabilities and then discuss capacities with the Nations. The SecGen asked me to accelerate the process in order to be able to put the capability targets are operable before the next Summit.  So, it is going well, we have 50 percent of the results and so that will be given to the Ministers to approve no later than May.

The point is with the NDPP and this cycle it is giving strong visibility to Industry. This is something that didn’t happen since decades so now all the 32 members and the youngest ones, will have a plan on how to fulfil these capability targets so that they can go to industry and say what they will do in the future. So NDPP is a sort of market accelerator so it is very good for industry. It’s a very important moment.

The second point is innovation and so with the SecGen team, ACT is to experiment new things that will bring as quick as possible to warfighters so I can give you some examples.

We have been given the task to evaluate acoustic sensing so it compliments to the radar, and we have tested this in a matter of six months in a NATO country, and we have proved that this kind of stuff can be connected to a NATO air picture.

The second range is that we will work on the operational USV experimentation for the Baltic in support of the operational Baltic Sentry that has been decided this week. It’s a totally new approach of capabilities with which we will try to do things different and to learn quicker.

And so back to the innovation we are launching, its not only about new magic guns or things about technology, it’s a new way to do things, its not specification centric, its warfighter centric so it’s goes directly to the warfighters.

It’s not long-term, its immediate and short term delivery. Its not immediately perfect but its adaptable, its incremental, its not about small numbers, its gives the possibility to be scalable at mass, and its software centric and so what we can bring to the NATO enterprise.

We have all of us with the plans and innovation, and the will and support of the 32 Nations, the means to succeed. And the question is a question of speed.

We need to act fast and smartly. And so in these uncertain times, ACT’s job is to provide warfighters with the quickest and smartest tools.

Time is paramount.

Thank you.

 

Ms Eleonora Russell, Moderator:  Thank you very much. With that we are ready to take your questions. For the transcript, I kindly ask you to please state your name and outlet. We will start in the centre, the back row.

Question: My name is Christina Giuliano from AskaNews and I have a question for General Cavoli. My question is about the contribution of Italy to the NATO effort - I would like to have your assessment. Then, I would like to know about the Baltic Century given that it is an operation of deterrence. I would like to understand what can to take place if something happens. For example, can what happened on Christmas be replicated in other seas, like the Mediterranean Sea? Thank you.

General Christopher Cavoli: Sure, thank you very much for the question.

Italy's contributions are extremely important to the Alliance and in some cases they are one of a kind. First, Italy rapidly moved to the front to establish itself as the framework Nation to the battlegroup in Bulgaria. Italy has established the framework for a brigade sized-battle group in Bulgaria. It has had soldiers deployed to Bulgaria in cooperation with other NATO Nations for almost 2 years now. Italy has already staged an exercise to raise that force up to brigade-level. We're very grateful for that, and I'm sure Bulgaria is also.

Second, Italy has continued to contribute to air policing, especially in the Balkans area, and in some cases it has actually provided the majority of a policing to other nations inside the Alliance.

In this regard, it's very useful that Italy has rapidly moved into fifth generation aircraft - in this case the F-35, and so they're able to conduct these air policing Missions at the very cutting edge of military capability. We're grateful for that.

In the maritime domain, given its geographical location and its historical activities in the Mediterranean Sea, Italy is also a significant contributor to all of our Maritime options and operations in the Mediterranean. The examples would be too numerous for me even to even to state, but finally I'd like to call special attention to Italy volunteering to be the first nation to assume and bring to full operational capability the Allied Reaction Force.

It's a new Force that's designed as my swing force. My force in waiting to handle out of area operations. Unexpected contingencies that do not fall within the Regional plans. Or even to add reinforcements in specific locations to the regional plans. Italy, under the NATO Rapid Deployment Corps located near Milano and under the command of Lorenzo D'Addario, General D'Addario, has done an absolutely spectacular job of bringing Nations together and creating a rapidly Deployable responsive unit that has already proven its worth in exercises in the Balkans, and will soon continue to do so in other locations. Italy's contributions, as with so many of our Allies, are significant even though they do not make the headlines every day.

With regard to Baltic Sentry: Baltic Sentry in many ways will illustrate the challenges of defending critical national infrastructure. As you know, there are complications of jurisdiction when we talk about national infrastructure. Some of it is national, some of it is commercial, some of it is in national waters, some of it is in international waters. So, there's a complicated mix of authorities that belong to Ministries of the Interior, coast guards, police, international organizations, commercial organizations… And, in each case, we work very carefully with the relevant authority to share information and to give an understanding of what is happening on the sea and in the sea. That is the principal function that we're performing up there. Thank you, that was all.

Admiral Pierre Vandier: If I can add some comments on the Baltic Sentry… This is the first time we'll give an ad to the military, let’s say conventional answer, by bringing some new stuff to the debate. This will be the US initiative. So that exists; it has been tested and used by the US especially in the Persian Gulf, and so the idea is to replicate what has been learned by one of our major partners - which is the US - in NATO operations. ACT will bring some new vehicles at speed of light. So, I expect that in less than a few weeks, we will bring that to MARCOM and then we will begin to use these ships to give a persistent, 247-surveillance of critical areas.

And then with the eight countries of the Baltic states, they will give to NATO their own drones, and we will federate in a single Network all the picture, all the video, the IAS, the picture on a radar picture, and then to spread it out to all stakeholders. It will give quicker forensic and quicker hints for action for the multiple stakeholders whether they are industry or Coast Guard or National Police… So it's the first time we bring this as an operational experiment in answer to an operational problem.

Moderator: Next question is on the right side here

Question: Elise Vincent,  le Monde. I have two questions for the three of you. You will decide who's supposed to answer. So I listen to you, and you keep repeating more or less that you the Alliance has to do more and quicker, but we can see now there is a rapprochement between Türkiye and Russia on the Syrian theatre, which may worries some specialists. And how do you consider the potential impact of this rapprochement? Can it disturb the movement of going faster and quicker for the Alliance? First question, and the second question, regarding the defence spending, Mr. Rutte kept repeating the last weeks that we need to spend more, around the countries of the alliance, and he was comparing the need to spend as during the Cold War era, and do you think we really therefore we’ve entered a new era of Cold War.

Admiral Rob Bauer: Okay, let me start with the second one. I think it's an old sticker, the Cold War, and it doesn't fit on what we do, because what we have done in the last couple of years is to look at the present threat of Russia, and as a result, our military plans have been written towards or against that threat, Russia and the terrorist groups.

And the consequence of that work was that we now know what we need collectively to deter and defend against those threats, which is Russia and the terrorist groups. What we collectively need is basically, let's say, the shield that the alliance has to have. And then we basically in the work of the NATO defence planning process we look at what does every Ally have to do to make up collectively that shield. So we divvy up all the capabilities that we need amongst the Allies in order to make sure that collectively we have what we need, that is the capability targets discussion.

And so we know as a result of that work that it is a lot, and that it costs more than 2%, and so the Secretary General's call for spending more is connected to basically that we know what we need in the coming years, and that we know that will cost more than 2% and it's not the Cold War. It's, as I say, that's an old sticker for that we try to put on the new work that is based on Russia, not the Soviet Union, not the Warsaw Pact, it is Russia and the terrorist groups.

So I think that is, that is one. And if that number of spending is close to what we spent in the period of the Cold War this might be something else, but it's not the same . So I think that is important to say. Second on Türkiye and Russia, we haven't talked about that. It doesn't have any consequences of what Türkiye agrees within the Alliance on doing more to actually deter and defend against Russia, because all these decisions are taken with consensus, so with Türkiye. So this is not hampering the work within the Alliance, whatever discussions a nation has with Russia, with China, or whatever, this is the work that we do within the Alliance, agreed against the agreed threat, which is Russia. So Türkiye is not having a different stance when it comes to what we need to do against the Russian threat.

Admiral Pierre Vandier: If I would add something on your Cold War perspective. So NDPP is the first time, for quite a long time, the pledge of the Nations is plans related. So it's the plans that dictate what we need, and not a sort of pledge for sort of an ambition. It's just to fulfil a plan. And so what will be decided in May, we say, yes, the plan have been approved by the nations. And then now they need to approve the needs to do the plans actionable. They are actionable but they need to be in the future as well. The needs in the future, and so it was my first point, they will need to be adaptable because things are changing, because it's war, it's technology. And so we will be able to change the targets with technology. In the NDPP process, the first time that we give the opportunity for the nations to adapt their targets with technology. So for example, they say, we give less tanks, but we give a mix of tanks and drones. Then we will calculate in our system, with our simulators, what kind of effect they can deliver. And then we say, Yes, we can do that.

And so it's a process which is not just pledging for tanks, ships and aircraft. It's just a way to fill the plans and say what the effects that are asked, and then we will fulfil this.

And then, which is new, and it's a reference to the Cold War, is that we are in the era of dual use. Everything is dual. And so what SACEUR told you about critical infrastructure is both military, civilian and national, international. And so you can see that on the sea, you can see on land and you can see in space, most of the critical infrastructure in space are civilian. And so all that questions that are driven by the NDPP is something which is new and didn't happen during the Cold War.

Moderator: So I know that we have a lot more questions. I also know that we're running out of time, so let's try to squeeze as many in as we possibly can. Let's start over here, and then we'll try to get to all of you, but we'll have to keep it short.

Question: Thanks a lot. Thanks, Max Delaney AFP, I'll talk quickly. A question for Admiral Bauer and then to General Cavoli. You've both been playing vital roles in NATO's efforts to support Ukraine. How could you give Ukraine in the meeting you just had any reassurances that NATO will be there to put it in a position of strength when you have no visibility beyond Monday, when Donald Trump will be inaugurated, about US support for Ukraine? And then second question on another issue, one of my AFP colleagues was in an aeroplane, in an French aircraft over the Baltic Sea yesterday  which was targeted by Russian fire control system and attempted jamming, how serious was this specific incident and how common is this sort of incident in the surveillance over the Baltic?

General Christopher Cavoli:  Thanks for the questions. First of all, with regards to NATO support for Ukraine. NATO support for Ukraine is enduring. It's enduring for a few reasons. The first reason is that it is the express political intention of the Nations of this Alliance to continue to support Ukraine.

The second reason is because we have actually established structures to do it. We have infrastructure, we have people assigned, NSATU as a headquarters. It’s a significant Headquarters. NATO has already assumed responsibility to defend the logistics enabling nodes which is a very complicated operation, a very sophisticated military operation. You will note that it was put into execution just the other day for the first time when some Russian drones were flying over Ukraine, and were headed in the direction of Poland, our airborne early warning and our other systems detected these. We launched F35s, in this case they were from Norway, and in conjunction with ground-based control, ground based radars and other devices, they were able to get a good lock on these drones, and were prepared to deal with them, should they have come into NATO airspace. They, of course, did not, but this involved everything from ground alert to ground based air defence to air-to-air refuelling, very complicated operations.

We'll be doing that weekly, I'm sure, more, multiple times weekly. So, we put into place procedures and institutions that are designed to endure. So, I'm not very worried about NATO's continuous contribution in support for Ukraine. Your other question was about electromagnetic interference. I don't want to talk about the specific case that you're talking about, but in general, I think we can say that it is widespread. It is affecting all types of air traffic. And it is something that is quite serious. It goes far beyond the borders of Europe as well and so I do confirm that.

Admiral Rob Bauer:  I think it's important to share with you that the meeting with General Syrskyi is a meeting between him and 32 Allied chiefs of defence, and those Chiefs of Defence have visited Ukraine several times in the last couple of years. And so that is a personal relationship as well. It's not just a distant figure in Ukraine that we're talking to. This is someone we know personally. There's mutual trust. And this is about professionals talking about what he needs, what we will be able to do, of course, within the political limitations that our governments impose on whatever happens.

And as General Cavoli says, the framework after Washington is to transfer some of the things that were organized by the US now into NATO, the ECCU, the IDCC. That was a group of nations helping Ukraine. Now NATO is taking over that responsibility, and the United States has agreed to that, and that doesn't change on Monday. So, I think the enduring contributions, and the enduring mechanisms that are now in place is something that is reassuring for someone like General Syrskyi, because for him, the war doesn't change because of what happens in the White House.

The war is there on Monday as well, and so he needs continued help, and we all agree, as the Secretary General has said, that we need to ensure that Ukraine is put in the strongest possible position for the moment when there is going to be negotiations. And until that time, we will have to continue to support Ukraine with everything we have in order to make sure that they can continue their fight and against Russia.

General Christopher Cavoli: It might be useful to point out that the nations of NATO took the decision to assume these responsibilities months ago. They took the decision formally at the Washington Summit, and it was part of the summit communique.

Moderator:  We'll go to Reuters next, and then we'll go to that side of the room which I have neglected. I'm sorry.

Question: Andrew Gray, Reuters.  Following up and staying with Ukraine. What's your current assessment of the state of the war, and what can NATO allies do right now, for the weeks and months to come to put Ukraine in that position of strength that you're talking about, what do they need most? What can allies provide?

Admiral Rob Bauer: I think it's important to explain that the war is a long war. We're approaching the three-year mark of this war, which was supposed to be a three-day war, if you listen to Mr. Putin. Both sides are in a difficult position. I mean, the war takes its toll on human beings, on material, on infrastructure, everything. So, both sides basically deal with the similar problems. They have to find new soldiers. They have to train them, they have to find equipment. They have to find weapons systems and ammunition. That is an ongoing effort on both sides. That is one.

Secondly, despite the fact that the Russians, that have the initiative and are attacking the Ukrainians on a daily basis on different points along the front. They are making very slow progress, and it costs them heavily.

We're talking about 700,000 wounded and killed soldiers on the Russian side in three years’ time. That's a huge number. And so we see that it is difficult for both sides. And then on the Ukrainian side, the front is not collapsing. Ukraine is still in the Kursk region. And the Russians basically have not achieved any of their strategic objectives. None.

So, you cannot say only that the Ukrainians have a difficult time. The Russians have a difficult time as well. What Ukraine needs is basically the things they are asking for a longer time, and that is air defence, that is artillery, that is, of course, a replacement for the weapons and the weapons systems that are destroyed in a war. It is armoured vehicles, it is tanks, it is all the things that are used, are being destroyed. And, of course, for the new units that they are working on and trying to form based on the recruits that they are training with our help, they need to equip those forces as well.

It's not like a new list of things he's asking for. It is a continuous list which is the result of a war because of the ammunition used, the lives lost because of the material that is destroyed. But the Russians have exactly the same problems, and we see that the numbers are bigger on the Russian side, but the quality goes down there, and the Ukrainians with smaller numbers, are still focusing on quality with our training, our weapons systems, our ammunition.

General Christopher Cavoli: And NSATU is in daily communication with our Ukrainian colleagues and has a very detailed understanding of what they require at any given time. There are Ukrainian officers inside NSATU who help us with that understanding as well. So, it's a very close relationship. Obviously, the details of what they need, we should probably not discuss, but I'm very confident we understand what they need and that allies have the opportunity to provide

Moderator: We will go to over there. Thank you.

Question: Binna Chung, Yonhap News Agency South Korea. I have a question for admiral Bauer. Regarding the North Korean troops, we have seen reports that the Ukrainian army have captured some of the soldiers alive. What is your latest assessment? Are they just like, being used as a human shield, or are they actually having some impact in the battlefield? And I have another question, if I may. You have been mentioning China, not only today, but also yesterday in your Opening Remarks, so I know that all of the representatives from IP4 countries have been attending this meeting. In what particular aspects or field that are you looking into to have some cooperation in military terms regarding this background. Thank you.

Admiral Rob Bauer: Okay, on the DPRK, it is still amazing that one of the most isolated countries in the world, North Korea, is now suddenly a player. And that is not only allowed by Russia because they need them for first the artillery ammunition and the missiles, but now also for troops. But it is also fascinating that China is basically allowing this to happen.

So, both China and Russia have stopped supporting the UN, in terms of the Security Council resolutions on North Korea with regards to the missiles and the nuclear programme. That is a huge change. It's a huge change that North Korea, the most isolated country in the world, now suddenly is a player, and the result of that, that they are in Europe fighting for the Russians, means that the Indo Pacific is now suddenly connected to the European theatre in a way that nobody thought for possible. That is, that has huge consequences.

So, solving the conflict in Ukraine is not only about Ukraine and Russia. It is now also about North Korea. It is also about Iran, it's also about China. So it complicates the finding of a solution I think. It makes it more complex, at least. And secondly, I think it was a strategic mistake to have North Korea involved in this way. And so, in terms of how good are those soldiers? How are they used? And what do we see?

We know it's about 11,000 soldiers that are in the Kursk region, used by the Russians. What we basically know here is also from the Ukrainians, is that about a third of those is wounded and killed. And actually, they are used in not very effective way, because there is a language problem with the Russians so coordination between the Russians and the North Koreans is actually not really possible. And they are not necessarily used in a very favourable positions by the Russians.

So, they are not necessarily used as a shield or whatever, but they are used in a way where a lot of them will die. Yes, I saw those soldiers that were captured as well that were questioned. So that will give the Ukrainians information on how they are used and how effective they see themselves.

On China, as I explained, there's a lot of things that is being very openly done by North Korea. I mean giving weapons, selling weapons. By the way, the Russians are giving now weapons to North Korea, that are seen in the Korean peninsula. And that is therefore a problem for the Republic of Korea, but also for the US, which has troops there as well. So it increases the problem set, not only in Ukraine, but in a wider perspective.

And China is basically ensuring that Russia remains in the fight with everything the Russians need to build weapons. They don't give weapons. But it's microprocessors. It is raw materials, all the things the Russians need for mass production in the defence industry, come to a great extent from China. So, they play a role. And we have said to China, you can't have it both ways. I mean, you can't say you want to be friends with us and trade and with the Europeans and the Americans and at the same time fuel war in Europe. That's not good. And the Russian Chinese relationship is very unclear what it leads to, but the implications of that relationship in the longer term is also, of course, a great concern.

Moderator: I'm afraid we only have time for one final question. I'm very, very sorry. I’m going to give it to Teri Schultz.

Question: Teri Schultz. You’re giving it to me? Sorry, my voice is not good, guys. Okay, I'm going to give one to each of them, because Leo can't get mad at me anymore. First, of course, Admiral Bauer, I'm thinking back to a year ago, when we were here, exactly at this press conference, and giving you a chance to reminisce a little bit. At that time, I asked you about the Swedish call to prepare for war to its citizens, and you said you go to the other countries would train their own citizens in this way. Have you seen that sort of urgency picked up among other countries in the Alliance, preparing society for, I mean, not just possible war, but also potentially natural disasters? And the other thing you said was that industry had to stop being “just enough, just in time.” I think that was your statement. General Cavoli, you said that you were quite confident that no matter what happens with the Trump administration and Ukraine, supply would be okay. But what about your own situation with the Family of Plans? You have organized everything to such great detail, not that I've seen it, obviously, but so we hear. Are you worried that if the US pulls back even a little bit, it will disturb the balance that you've created in these new plans? And Admiral Vandier, the United States, the Biden administration were worried about Trump tariffs. They have just decided that many, many NATO allies, the Eastern Europeans, will have a limit on how many microchips they can buy, AI microchips, because they're worried about China's weapons industry. But what does that do to innovation in the Alliance. Is this something you're worried about? Thank you.

Admiral Rob Bauer: Okay, on the preparations for war. It's a call that Secretary General Rutte put there out there a couple of weeks ago in his speech for Carnegie Europe. It is what I said a year ago. I think it's a very old saying, “If you want peace, prepare for war.” And I think it is exactly what we need to do. And then people call me a warmonger, but actually it's the opposite, the fact that if you prepare for war in the right way, then you are deterring your enemies better, and if you deter your enemies better than the chance there will be war goes down.

So it's not, let's say, a plea for war, it is a plea for peace, and that requires investments on a much wider scale than just the armed forces. Because if you look at deterrence, it is also about energy security; it is about food security; it is about the resilience of the people. Societies think about the fact that in a crisis, you need new soldiers after a couple of days. It's not only about new grenades and new tanks. It's also about new soldiers, so you have to think about systems where you are resilient. And if you all have arranged that, it's about raw materials, that you are not dependent on one nation only, like we saw with Russia, gas and oil, like we see now with China, when it comes to raw materials, for renewable energy or for certain medicines. We are heavily dependent on China. I think it's not good. I'm not against China, but it's not good we are depending on one nation for those supplies.

So all that, if you take that into account, we need to do much more. Your question was, “Is that happening?” I see it happening more and more. There is more and more discussion about it, not only in Sweden. It is happening in the Scandinavian nations for a longer time. The discussions in Germany are happening. In my own nation, there is more discussion on this.

So I think this is important to build up the societal resilience. That's one, and industry is part of that. Industry is part of societal resilience. And “the just in time, just enough” economies we have created over the last 40 years is not enough for a pandemic and not enough for a war.

We need to be able to respond to peak demand signals, and that's not the case. Now, we have to increase our own defence capacity, that's one and at the same time, we can help Ukraine by investing in the capacity that is available in Ukraine, by investing with money to make that capacity that is there work for them, because what they lack is money, and not the capacity itself. They have the factories, but they need the money for the raw materials, etc. So I think that is something we are looking at as an Alliance, or as Allies as well, and the combination will improve, but it's something we need to work on for many more years to improve our societal resilience.

Teri Schultz: And you wanted to say you’ll miss us?

Admiral Rob Bauer: I will miss you all. I will miss you all. This is the highlight of my year every time.

General Christopher Cavoli: Sure. So the United States contribution to the regional plans is very significant. It's a national commitment. It's there. It's strong. I don't want to talk about exactly what it is, of course, or the exact numbers of the plan, but it's a substantial pledge. It would be irresponsible to, you know, speculate about what a future administration might do hypothetically, so I won't do that, but I will point out that the plans are designed to be to be flexible and to accept the forces that are made available. I have to say, though, that there seems to be sometimes a misperception that the US provides everything and other nations come along. That is not the case in these plans. The US provides a relevant amount of force in them, but that's all. I would call attention, you know, to current operations. We talked about Baltic Sentry a few minutes ago. It took me, you know, less than 24 hours to examine the situation and to make a decision under authorities granted to me by the North Atlantic Council as SACEUR that we needed to do something about it. It took three days or so to plan it out and to get the first contributions. And then it took a day or so to sail the assets into place, and in less than a week, we were up and operating in the Baltics.

There's not a single US contribution to that. I think I'm the only US contribution to it, in fact. So this is an alliance that is not a one trick pony. This is an alliance that is capable of doing things and is rapidly gaining the ability to do more and more. In the future, it will continue to depend on the defence spending we talked about earlier, and on the industrial production that Admiral Bauer just talked about. Thanks.

Admiral Pierre Vandier: On AI, it’s a very big question, because we know that we’ll modify the way we fight. And so the concerns of the US administration about this are clearly the good ones, because it’s about military edge. So we can say that AI is in the four stages of the “action loop,” perhaps you know the OODA loop, which is observe, orient, decide and act. And so it's the constant loop that we are turning all the day. “Observe” is about using AI with mass data processing and especially in intel. When you are, for example, in space you produce millions of pixels during one hour, then you need AI to process to help the operators to recognize what's going on. And so it gives a quicker and more relevant picture. On the “Orient” phase, it's where you prepare a decision for a boss and then use extensive use of LLMs to give faster, clearer orders, faster adaptation. On the “Decide” side, you will use AI to simulate, to war game, to model and then to test your scenario and say is this the good answer I'm putting in the field? And then to the “Act,” it's the use of AI in embarked systems.

You know, for example, having some Loyal Wingmen for the fighters or piloting some swarms of drones, whether they are land, surface or air, will require use of AI. So it's a critical question and so this year, I sent a letter a week ago to the Chief of the Military Committee proposing him to have an AI champion in ACT. And I can tell you already that I've had some discussions with some nations about implementing AI tools in their system. And so ACT will be a matter of discussion because we are in the US. We are in a close discussion with the US military, and so we’re able to bring the understanding of this tech and then to find solutions for the Alliance. Thank you.

Question: Teri Schultz. What about the Allies that are no longer going to have access to buy as many microchips as they want from the US?

Admiral Pierre Vandier: AI is not just about having some microchips. You have some frugal AI. In fact, the difficulty for AI is to build it, and so it requires a large number of computers and chips. But once it's done, it doesn't require so many computers. You have AI in your pocket with what you have in your in your smartphone. You can have Chat GPT and have good use of AI. The question is to trust what AI is giving to you.

So for sure, some countries will not be able to develop new solutions because they will not have access to chips, but the products that will be developed within the Alliance will be for everybody.

Moderator: That concludes this press conference. To give one more example of Italy's phenomenal contributions to the Alliance, tomorrow Admiral Giuseppe Cavo Dragone will take over as Chair of the NATO Military Committee. We wish him and his team nothing but the best, and thank you all for keeping us sharp these last couple of years. Thank you.