Remarks

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

We are going to ask the Secretary General some questions here in Brussels. And then we'll hand over to Colleen in Washington DC for some additional questions. And you get the chance to ask questions of the Secretary General. Just use the app if you've got the app. The Q & A function is where you can submit your questions online or if you're here in person, raise your hand and I will call on you. Okay, let's give a round of applause to welcome NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg to the stage.

Brilliant, thank you so much for being here with us today, Secretary General.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

Thanks so much for having me. It's good to be back. I was here a year ago and it’s good to be back again.

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

Brilliant. My first question is about what it's like to be NATO Secretary General. You've actually been Secretary General for nearly a decade. You have to work with a lot of different countries and leaders. And I'm wondering, has that tenure given you any particular insight into how to keep NATO united and successful? What is your secret?

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

I don't know whether I have any secrets. But I think it is very much about keeping people together and different people together, because as we all know, we are 31 nations which are members of NATO.  And soon we will be at 32 with also Sweden. From both sides of the Atlantic, with different history, different culture, different political parties in power. And of course, that makes us all quite different. But at the same time we have been able to be together as a big family and I feel that my main purpose is to keep this big family happy and together. And we are able to be together despite our differences because we all understand that in a more dangerous world, we are safer when we are together, North America and Europe. So my perhaps not secret, but my main message is that staying together, unity, is our biggest strength. And I used to be Prime Minister in Norway for 10 years and most of the time I was Prime Minister in a coalition government with different parties. And to keep a government together it's very much the same as to keep NATO together.

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

Could you tell us about some of the most formative experiences in your career? You mentioned a couple of highlights just now. But how did you become Secretary General of NATO? What did that path look like?

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

Well, I was surprised when I was asked to become the Secretary General of NATO. Because I have never planned for being that. Actually I made one decision, one clear conscious decision about my career, and that was not to become a politician. But to start to work on as a researcher in the Central Bureau of Statistics in Norway in 1989. Because then I finished my master degrees in economics in Norway, and I started on a PhD, on something called econometrics. Which is statistics and mathematics and I was so fascinated by that. So my plan was to become, I think, a kind of professor, an academic working on this very theoretical stuff.

And then I was asked to become the Deputy Minister for Environment. And I promised myself and my wife only to do that for a year or two and then to go back to the real important things, which was all this research. But then, that happened in 1990. And since then, I've been in politics.

And now I'm 64 years old, so suddenly, I'm here. But then I was active in domestic Norwegian politics and my main focus was on budgets and health and education and pensions, and these big domestic issues. And that was awesome.

So, but I think that but my formative years have been very much about actually growing up in a very political family. Because I have to admit that both my mother and my father, they were very active. I grew up in a flat, where at the kitchen table my parents had many guests from all over the world. This was the time of the apartheid. So we had freedom fighters from South Africa. And we had politicians and trade unionists from all over the world.

And they partly lived in our flat and at least had breakfast flat. And I listened carefully to all those conversations and that made me interested in politics. So actually, to try to answer your question, I think my most formative thing is of course, that I decided to go into politics and I stayed in politics for many years.

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

Something very unexpected as well, so it just shows you how life can take turns you don't anticipate. My next question actually, kind of has a little bit to do with your family background and the influences of your family. I think a lot of young people feel kind of a sense of discomfort about war. For some it's thankfully a completely unfamiliar experience. And for some, it presents a lot of disconcerting moral and armed conflict. How can we reconcile our ethical and moral discomfort with the unfortunate reality of war?

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

First of all, I don’t think it’s only young people that feel discomfort with wars. I actually think - just a woman that spoke here just a moment ago - I think she feels even more discomfort than any one of us are able to feel, because she has really experienced war. And there are a lot of elderly people in Europe still, who have actually lived through the Second World War.

So I think this has nothing to do with young or old. I think that a normal human reaction is, that you don't like wars. Because war is about the use of force. It's about casualties between being people killed. So therefore, you have to remember the main purpose of NATO is to prevent war.  NATO was established after the Second World War to prevent anything like that to happen again.

But as the old Romans used to say, if you if you want peace you need to prepare for war. Meaning that NATO's main purpose is to deter any potential adversary.  And as long as we do that, no Ally, no NATO Ally will be attacked.  And we pursue peace as we have done for NATO Allies for more than, or for close to 75 years. So the fact that we see the need for strong NATO, for strong collective defence, for military forces, does not mean that we like wars, this means actually the opposite, that we dislike war so much, that we feel that we need to invest to prevent wars from happening, and at least prevent any military attack on our countries.

Then, as you came back to my family. So I'm born in 1959. So meaning I'm born after the Second World War.  But I had a mother and a father, I had grandparents, who all lived through the Second World War. And they told me, and they told the children so much about both the daily life - the ration cards, and how they had dark curtains to prevent air strikes, and the kind of varied daily life in Oslo during the war – so sometimes I feel it. And when we walked around in Oslo, my parents and grandparents, they pointed at different places where there were, you know, sabotage, and also the resistance movement attacked and so on.

So, sometimes I actually felt I grew up during the Second World War, not because I really did it, but because it was so close to me because I had family members who told me so much about it. And then my, the father of my mother, he actually helped Jews to leave, or to flee Norway over to Sweden. And I met one of those Jewish families. And that’s of course, that's quite moving to meet.  I met this, he was three years old, the Jewish boy, that was helped by my grandfather to go to Sweden. And the father of my father, he was an officer in the 1940s. So he fought and back in April and May and June of 1940, and then he was in a prison camp. And he also told a lot. So in that sense, wars have been part of my childhood, even though I never, of course, experienced war.

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

Thank you very much for that. Let's go to the audience for a few questions. I think we've got one. Wow. Yeah, we have a lot of questions. We've got one right here in the middle. If you just don't mind going to the microphone so we can hear you. Thank you.

Question:

Good afternoon, Secretary General. My question is why is NATO important for younger people?

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

Well, NATO is important for young people, middle aged people, old people, children, everyone.

Because the whole idea that it’s only important for one group of people is fundamentally wrong. Because, again, NATO has one big important task and that is peace. And if we don't have peace, we will not succeed with anything else. Be it to create prosperity, jobs, education or to address big issues like climate change. But of course, you can say that peace is even more important for younger people than for elderly people because they have a longer life ahead of them.

So if we destroy this earth, and we create war and destruction, of course, it has impact for more years for young people than for elderly people. But my main message is that (inaudible)

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

And if you don't mind, going to the microphone. Thank you.

Question:

Hello, everyone. My name is (inaudible). I'm president of the Atlantic Treaty Association Ukraine based in Kyiv. First of all, I want to express my gratitude to what NATO did and continues to do in terms of supporting Ukraine, to fight against Russian unprovoked and unjustified aggression. My question is, what would be the NATO response to a potential scenario, when China launched its invasion on Taiwan, and Russia is supported by Chinese military equipment? Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

Well, first of all, I think the message is that China should not use force to change the status quo for Taiwan.

The NATO Allies - there are no changes in NATO Allies, on our policy on One China and there is no justification for the threats and the coercion sort of behaviour that we have seen China being responsible for around Taiwan for actually several, several months and then actually the last years.

So that's the main message. The other message is that any changes, any disputes should be solved by diplomatic, not by military means. Then I think, what we see is that China is not only threatening Taiwan, but China is also responsible for coercive actions against neighbours. They try to control the South China Sea. They have taken control, or at least tried to take control of big parts of the South China Sea. And we also see how China and Russia are coming closer and closer.

And there is another big naval exercise together. We see more Chinese and Russian, both air and naval patrols. So of course this is something that matters for our security. And that's also the reason why NATO - in the new Strategic Concept, that we agreed at the Madrid Summit -  actually addresses, the military, the economic, the political strength,  increasing power of China, this poses a challenge to our security, to our values.

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

Thank you, and thank you also for that question. Let's take another question from this audience on right here in the second row in the right top. Yeah. Thank you,

Question:

Secretary General, so we witness the increasingly severe consequences of climate change.

They don't only pose a significant threat to our environments and ecosystems, but also have far reaching implications for our security and technological development. And considering the scarcity of water and critical minerals, which are essential components for the development of cutting edge technologies. My question is: how does NATO intend to address these issues with member states, international organizations, in order to secure these resources, minimize potential conflicts and promote sustainability through new technologies?

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

One of the areas where we have really seen a change in NATO in the last few years, it's actually on climate change.

Again, the Strategic Concept we adopted in Madrid addresses climate change as a challenge and a threat to our security. In the previous Strategic Concept, we hardly mentioned climate change at all.

But this language and the Strategic Concept reflects the reality. And that is that climate change is a crisis multiplier. It fuels conflict and it increases competition over scarce resources, like the water land, and also of course, leads to much more migration. So climate change matters for our security in many different ways and therefore it matters for NATO, because NATO is about security.

Second, we also understand or see that there's a very close link between energy and climate change. And we see how energy has been used as a tool, as a weapon. And we saw that or have seen that recently with the war in Ukraine, where Russia tried to use gas as a weapon to convince, or to prevent NATO Allies from providing support to Ukraine.

And then of course, we see this energy transition, where we move from fossil fuel to renewables to cleaner and climate friendly energy sources. And that's something which has to happen. Extremely important and very supported by NATO Allies.

But the challenge is that in this transition, there is a risk that we create new dependencies. Because the solar panels are very much dependent on rare earth minerals coming mainly from China. Windmills, and also, batteries are dependent on supply chains, which are extremely dependent on commodities and products coming from China. So we just have to make sure that we don't make the same mistake as we made with being too dependent on Russian gas that we're over depend on China. Of course, we should trade with China, but we should not be dependent to a degree that makes us vulnerable. So this energy transition, we need to make sure that we actually are able to do that in a way, we also use our own natural resources, where we are developing new technologies, so we are not creating new dependencies.

And the last thing is, of course, that the way we conduct military operations are directly impacted by climate change. Just the fact that the sea level is rising has a direct impact on many naval bases. The fact that we have more extreme weather, wild, wetter and windier weather matters for the way we conduct operations. In Iraq, we have soldiers who are training the Iraqi forces and, of course, we have seen more than 55 degrees Celsius. So uniforms, equipment, has to change to be able to cope with much more extreme weather. And then, NATO also have to take part in the efforts to reduce emissions and I can, and if we look at armoured vehicles and battle tanks and fighter jets, and the bigger aircraft carrier, you know, they are not normally very environmentally friendly. That is not what they are characterized the most with.

But at the same time, we have to understand that now there is an energy revolution taking place in the civilian sector, and not in a very distant future the most powerful, the most effective engines will be non-fossil. So if NATO and our armed forces ends up as the last fossil sector in our societies, it will be bad for the environment, it will also be bad for our armed forces because we need to be part of that transition to ensure that we have the best capabilities, the best engines, the best planes, the best vehicles. So of course we cannot choose green defence technology if it is not effective, but I am absolutely certain that in the future, the most effective capabilities will also be the environmentally friendly and we need to be part of that transition. That is exactly why NATO Allies are investing and NATO is promoting investment in green technology to ensure that our armed forces are also part of this energy revolution, energy transition.

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

Brilliant. Thank you. Got a lot of questions. Let's go all the way to the back there. Please come to the microphone.

Question:

Hi, everyone. My name is [inaudible/ Slobodan Bogović], good afternoon. I am from Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Slovenia and all the other republics. It is a huge honour to be in the same room with you, Mr. Secretary. My question is what we, as a young Bosnian and Herzegovinians, what we can expect in the future. Is our country safe since that, I would say that since with NATO we have strong partnership and also I know that it depends on our politicians but how is the situation right now when it comes to the Euro Atlantic integration of my country? Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

First have to tell you that when I was a child I lived in Yugoslavia, because that was before, you know, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia and Slovenia and all the other republics became independent countries. And my father worked at the Norwegian embassy in Belgrade and we travelled a lot around Bosnia and Herzegovina. I remember we went to Banja Luka, many times because that was actually on the way when we went down to the coast from Belgrade but also in Sarajevo, I had my first ice cream, I remember: “sladoled”. It was something I had in Sarajevo, I remember in 1963 or something like that. So we had very good, or at least at that time, very good ice cream in Sarajevo, that is what I remember.

Then of course, Bosnia and Herzegovina is a partner of NATO. We have worked with Bosnia and Herzegovina for many years. As you all know, NATO played a key role. We helped to end a brutal war in Bosnia Herzegovina in the 1990s. Since then, we have been there, we have a headquarters in Sarajevo and we work closely with authorities. Of course, you know, there are challenges, there are divisions inside Bosnia and Herzegovina but NATO will be there to help and to reform your defences, your institutions and help to move you further towards Euro Atlantic integration.

And it is also great to have you here because the fact that you are here also demonstrates that Bosnia and Herzegovina is close and a highly valuable partner.

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

Brilliant, thank you. I know we have so many more questions in the room and we actually have loads of questions coming in online but we also have a live audience waiting for us in D.C. So over to you Colleen, do you have some questions for the secretary general?

Colleen Grace (Washington D.C.):

Yes, thank you, Kira. Thank you so much, Secretary General Stoltenberg. So do we have any questions in the room? Thank you.

Question:

Thank you, Secretary for being with us. My name is Aubrey. I founded [inaudible] a non-profit that invests in rising leaders in foreign policy. My question is, how NATO actively contributing to peace and security in conflict affected countries that are outside its immediate boundaries? And what role can young people play in contributing to those efforts?

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

Just to be sure I understood the question: it is about what NATO does for countries after conflict has ended?

Question:

No. Who are experiencing conflict outside of the immediate borders?

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

Outside NATO borders? Well, we have partners in many places in the world and of course, some of these partners they are in conflict and therefore we have helped them, I think, perhaps one very relevant example is Iraq, where NATO has helped over the last two years to train the forces which are fighting terrorists, and in particular fighting ISIS. So of course, different countries receive different types of support from different institutions, it can be the UN or individual NATO Allies but what NATO does on behalf of all Allies is very often to help to build capacity, to train local forces and to create stability in our neighbourhood because when our neighbours are more stable, we are more secure. So we work with the hosts of some other countries in Northern Africa, Tunisia, or in the Sahel region, Mauritania with helping them to stabilize their own countries and to fight terrorism and to modernize and reform their defence and security institutions because they are, that is important for their countries, but it is also important for us because if they fail, the whole world and our neighbourhood becomes more dangerous.

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

Thank you for that and thanks for that question from D.C. Do you have another question from D.C. for us, Colleen?

Colleen Grace (Washington D.C.):

Sure we do. Thanks.

Question:

Hello, Mr. Secretary. My name is Doherty. I am a program assistant at the Atlantic Council. I have one question that takes us back to the issue of climate change. I am interested in hearing how you plan to maintain unity among the various NATO Allied countries in addressing this issue?

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

Well, so first of all, I welcome the fact that we have unity because it was a bit controversial in the beginning, when we started to raise climate change issues at NATO.

But as we always see in NATO, is that we have a process, we have discussions, we have different views and then we develop common ground and then we reach consensus as we did at the summit.

Yes. Last year, we have agreed an action plan; we have agreed a language and ambitions for NATO when it comes to climate change. Both how to reduce, the aim of reducing emissions from NATO activities but also that we should do more on helping to develop and greener and cleaner technology also for our armed forces.

And I believe that one of the reasons why we are able to retain, sustain unity in NATO on climate change is that first of all, NATO Allies are concerned about climate change. Our NATO Allies have signed the Paris Accord and other climate change conventions or agreements. But second, regardless of whether you are concerned about climate change or not, you have to be concerned about the fact that if we are not able to ensure that this energy revolution is taking place also within the armed forces, we will not  have the best and the most modern armed forces in the world because if you look a couple of decades ahead, there is no way the best engines will be fossil-fuel, because if you look at the civilian sector, there is a real revolution taking place now with more and more car makers going away from fossil-fuel cars to electric cars. So if this only happens in the civilian sector, we will end up with bad equipment, bad technology, and outdated military equipment. So I care about climate change but even if you don't care about climate changes, you care about the fact that we have to be part of this big technological revolution. Many years ago, I read a book called “The Prize” by Daniel Yergin and that is about the energy revolution and oil, replacing coal, at least to some extent replacing coal, in the last century. There is a chapter, at least some pages in that book, about Winston Churchill, he was Secretary for the Navy before the First World War and he made a very controversial and courageous decision: to decide that the British Navy should go from coal-fired engines to oil-fired or diesel-fired engines. And that was just ahead of the First World War, they didn't know of course that the First World War first war is going to happen, but of course to move from coal, you have a lot of infrastructure, you have engines, you have coal all around the different ports. To go to this was controversial and you were quite vulnerable in that transition period but he did so and when the First World War broke out, it was a big advantage for the British Navy that had already made that transition. It was a new technology, and it made the British Navy faster, more sustainable, and stronger than all those navies that still had coal as energy source for the ships.

And the same way, we have to make the same energy transition for our fossil fuel-based engines. The challenge is exactly when, and in that transition period there are of course vulnerabilities and the question was on unity, and my message is that while those who don't care about climate change, they care about the armed forces and therefore we need to conduct that energy transition.

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

Brilliant. I think exploring that link between technology and climate change, also the role of NATO in the ecosystem of technology more broadly is very, very interesting. If something's come up throughout the day. I wonder if we might have time for one more question from Washington, D.C. Colleen, do you have one more question for us?

Colleen Grace (Washington D.C.):

We have quite a few questions here. Let’s go. Right there. Thank you sir.

Question:

Good morning, Secretary. My name is Daniel Simon. I am a rising lawyer and entrepreneur of Cuban heritage and my question for you as we focus on the tensions between Russia and China. There are alliances, economic alliances forming as the war has developed. We have the example of the BRICS, for example, and as recently as few months ago, we have the Russian Foreign Minister of Russian Foreign Affairs, hinting at potential deployment of military units in Venezuela and Cuba. How does NATO perceive this geopolitical implication of Russia and China's relationship with Latin American countries and works towards stabilizing peace on this side of the world and particularly in Latin America? Thank you.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg:

So what we see is that China and Russia are coming closer and closer, we see that they try to increase their presence and create alliances with different countries around the world. And of course, this is something we follow very closely. I think the main answer is that when we see that authoritarian powers are coming more close together and are joining forces more closely, then it is even more important that we ensure that all those countries that believe in democracy and freedom stand together in NATO: North America and Europe in NATO 31, soon 32 nations. So it makes NATO even more important.

But also the fact that NATO is reaching out to two countries, also beyond the Euro Atlantic or the North Atlantic area. For instance, at the NATO summit in Vilnius, I have invited the heads of state and government from Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Australia which are our close partners in the Indo Pacific, because we believe that in a more dangerous world, where security is not regional anymore but truly global, and China and Russia are coming closer, it is even more important that we work closely with our partners all around the world.

That is reason why we are reaching out to them to balance the fact that Russia and China are coming closer and working more closely with other countries in different parts of the world.

Dr. Kira Allman (Brussels):

Brilliant. Thank you so much, Secretary General, for joining us today and for answering all our questions here and in Washington, D.C. It has been a real pleasure to have you. Please let's thank the Secretary General.