Press point

JAMES APPATHURAI (NATO Spokesperson): Ladies and Gentlemen, the Secretary General and the President will each make opening statements and we have time for questions. Secretary General.

ANDERS FOGH RASMUSSEN (NATO Secretary General): First of all, a warm welcome to President Saakashvili. It's really a great pleasure to get this opportunity to meet with you here at NATO headquarters. I took the opportunity today to convey my thanks for Georgia's contributions to NATO's ISAF mission in Afghanistan. Both the infantry company working in the Kabul region and the full infantry battalion planned to be deployed in April are important and welcomed.

I have reiterated to the president that NATO's policy towards Georgia has not changed. We will continue to support Georgia in its Euro-Atlantic aspirations. NATO is fully committed to Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity. Our Allies stick to their policy of non-recognition of the Abkhazia and South Ossetia regions of Georgia.

NATO continues to call on Russia to fulfill its obligations with regard to Georgia in particular to fulfill its obligations under the six point ceasefire agreement and to allow international monitors into the entire territory of Georgia.

President Saakashvili and I discussed Georgia's ongoing efforts to resolve the conflict within its territory. The Georgian strategy advocates engagement as opposed to isolation. And I consider this strategy as a step in the right direction. It will be important for Georgia to foster economic and people to people contacts even without a resolution of status issues in the near future.

The president and I also discussed the ongoing process of democratic reforms in Georgia. We hope to see the implementation of the necessary electoral and constitutional reforms in line with the commitments Georgia has undertaken in its annual national program. In that respect, the upcoming local elections in May this year will be an important milestone.

In conclusion, NATO and Georgia will continue the cooperation within the NATO-Georgia Commission. Our cooperation is based on the fundamental principle that Georgia, as well all other countries, must be allowed to decide its own fate and its own future. It must also have the courage to make the necessary reforms. And I can assure you that NATO will continue to support all efforts in these directions.

MIKHEIL SAAKASHVILI (President of Georgia): Well, Mister Secretary General, I'm kind of thrilled to come here and meet you in this new capacity. And I think we're all lucky to have you here. We had to enjoy excellent cooperation when you used to have the government of your country. And since you come here, NATO doors have opened very widely for Georgian officials. Seven in a row are concluding the long list of Georgian officials that had the opportunity to meet you for the last several months.

And I have to say that contacts with the highest level of NATO have never been as it stands right now in your tenure and term as Secretary General. And certainly, we're very grateful. As well we are very grateful for your strong commitment and reiteration of basic principles of open door policy, right to choose for the countries, merit base approach and engagement in finding solutions rather than creating problems, and preventing these problems to be created. As you know, we are committed to Afghanistan. We are the biggest per capita contributor to the Afghan... to the ISAF.

We are not only sending troops there. As you know, we have a small professional army. It's quite a luxury to send thousands or so troops without any caveats to the most sensitive and difficult areas in Afghanistan, I have to underline. And people going there have... understand clearly what kind of responsibility and risks they're taking. And I think Georgian society all over has been behind that decision.

But we also are willing to engage in training their troops in Georgia and on site in Afghanistan. We offered our help in training Afghan police. And we have the most successful example in the region at least and one of the best ones in the recent... you know, in my recent examples of transitional countries, of police reform. So we are engaged... and certainly offering this help and we certainly offered our infrastructure and every possible transit facility Georgia has for... to use the routes for supply for Afghanistan operations. We have (inaudible) new. successes in Afghanistan.

That implication of success as well as an implication of every mistake or failure that could have happened before this year are much beyond the territory of Afghanistan or the immediate region. And they're felt – vibrations are felt everywhere. As well as stake is for everybody, for NATO to succeed, and Georgia is committed to doing that.

Again, Georgia-NATO Commission is very important vehicle. It's very important that that vehicle is used properly. And we had very extensive meetings of that commission, more frequently than ever before lately. And you know, it has almost become routine. And it's also a very good, important instrument for our cooperation to proceed and be more fruitful and successful.

JAMES APPATHURAI: (inaudible)

Q: Georgian Public Broadcasting, (inaudible). Now that Ukraine slowed down the NATO integration and because the two countries, I mean Georgia, is mentioned together in Bucharest Commitment, is there any plan in NATO to change wording towards Georgia? Or can it in some other way somehow slow down the Georgian accession in NATO? And also I want to ask you a second question. Have you discussed with Georgian president your future and possible visit in Georgia? And if yes, when it will take place, thank you?

ANDERS FOGH RASMUSSEN: To start with the later, yes, the president has kindly invited me to visit Georgia, once again, now in my new capacity. I have accepted the invitation. I look very much forward to visiting Georgia. We have not decided any date yet. It's only a calendar question. But definitely, I look very much forward to visiting Georgia. Concerning the first part of your question, I can assure you that there will be no change of the wording of what the NATO summit decided at the Bucharest Summit in 2008. And you will recall that we decided that Georgia as well as Ukraine will become members of NATO, of course provided they so wish and provided they fulfill the necessary criteria. And we have no intention whatsoever to change this wording. So the NATO position is unchanged.

It is then for each individual country to decide its own future, also to carry through the necessary reforms. And each country will be judged upon its own merits. So we will take an individual approach.

JAMES APPATHURAI: Here and then there...

Q: Monsieur le Président, je crois que vous parlez français aussi?

MIKHEIL SAAKASHVILI: Oui, bien sûr.

Q: Est-ce que je peux vous poser la même question que ma collègue géorgienne en vous demandant si vous avez été rassuré par ce que vous a dit le Secrétaire général concernant le fait que malgré les changements en Ukraine, la Géorgie sera traitée de manière égale?

MIKHEIL SAAKASHVILI: Oui, absolument, nous avons parlé de ça aussi. Tout... tout... D'abord, il faut attendre et voir la position de l'Ukraine parce que je crois que c'est le gouvernement qui vient de commencer de travailler. Et bien sûr, c'est un processus qui est en évolution. D'un autre côté, c'était toujours clair que les deux pays sont liés. Mais tous les deux pays doivent être approchés, basés sur leurs... pas seulement leurs priorités, mais leurs réformes, leurs progrès. Donc, de ce point de vue, la Géorgie a fait beaucoup de changements, beaucoup de réformes.

Nous n'avons pas perdu notre temps. Et je crois que si on examine très étroitement la situation en Géorgie avec la réforme du système politique, du système économique, la corruption, la réforme militaire, nous avons fait une grande avance. Et c'est vraiment un pays qui, dans beaucoup de domaines, joue dans la ligue pas vraiment post-soviétique. Si on regarde par exemple l'économie, nous sommes numéro 11 selon la Banque mondiale dans la facilité des affaires, de faire des affaires, et numéro 1 dans l'Europe de l'Est et l'Asie centrale. Dans le domaine de corruption, nous sommes au niveau de Danemark et tous les autres pays très avancés, développés de l'Europe de l'Ouest, et bien avancé dans notre région.

La réforme militaire, la même chose, ça a avancé beaucoup, bien sûr avec une armée assez petite, mais vraiment éloigné de ce modèle post-soviétique qui encore existe dans beaucoup de pays de ces régions. Donc, il y a beaucoup des avantages. Il y a aussi des complications géopolitiques. C'est bien évident. Parce que nous sommes dans cette situation que 20% de notre territoire est occupé. Et bien sûr, ça pose des problèmes immenses, pas seulement pour nous, mais pour la communauté internationale. C'est évident, mais... Mais il faut... J'ai reçu les assurances aujourd'hui que... que ça va rester. Il y est... C'est aujourd'hui. Il faut attendre l'amélioration, pas de détérioration de nos positions envers la... pour le progrès vers devenir membre de l'OTAN dans l'avenir.

JAMES APPATHURAI: Last question...

Q: Radio-France. Monsieur Rasmussen, je connais... Je sais que vous parlez aussi très, très bien en langue française. Écoutez, j'ai une question. J'ai eu hier en dépêche que le Secrétaire d'État géorgien, il a déclaré que la Géorgie peut rentrer dans deux ans de... Il a écrit en ordonnance à l'OTAN. Bien écoutez, est-ce que c'est vrai que la Géorgie peut rentrer dans...?

MIKHEIL SAAKASHVILI: Excusez, le Secrétaire de l'État a écrit quoi...?

Q: Monsieur Baramidze. Monsieur Baramidze.

MIKHEIL SAAKASHVILI: Ah OK, c'est vice-premier ministre.

Q: Vice-premier ministre, oui, oui, excusez moi. Est-ce que c'est vrai que la Géorgie elle peut rentrer dans deux ans à l'OTAN et...? Parce qu'on a parlé... on a parlé déjà ici la porte ouverte. Est-ce que l'OTAN donne le feu vert dans deux ans à la Géorgie et après...?

ANDERS FOGH RASMUSSEN: C'est vraiment prématuré de faire une évaluation. Ça dépend... Ça dépend des progrès concernant les réformes. Comme déjà dit, nous allons évaluer chaque pays individuellement. Et la décision finale sera prise, basée sur l'accomplissement des critères nécessaires.

Q: J'aurais aussi une autre question.

MIKHEIL SAAKASHVILI: Deux ans. Ce n'est pas la futurologie nous parlons ici. Je serai un vieux dans deux ans. When I was first standing here, I remember... when I first came here, I had much less grey hair. And I will not have any hair maybe in 12 years so I don't know... We... I don't... I don't think we should put time limits. There are many factors in interplay. And never say never again. Because we've seen in the past people saying Baltic countries will never join in their lifetime. You know, Eastern and Central Europe, it's out of question. Things change very fast. And we should work and we are willing to do our homework. We need to be ready. We'll see. Et qui vivra verra, comme on dit.

Q: Mais la question est : Est-ce que la Géorgie peut rentrer sans l'Abkhazie si dans deux ans il a dit... ? Ça veut dire qu'on peut rentrer sans l'Abkhazie et sans l'Ossétie du Sud.

MIKHEIL SAAKASHVILI: Qui a dit que dans deux ans ce n'est pas possible de résoudre le problème, comme vous avez dit. Mais ce n'est pas deux ans. As I said, we have engagement policy, but the fact is that we have no illusions about what this war was all about. And one of the reasons of this war was to solder Georgia's not a EuroAtlantic but generally a European orientation. But I think Georgia, the people has made their choice irreversibly.

So I think people in Abkhazia, when we talk about people of Abkhazia, we should talk about almost 400,000 refugees that basically were ethnically cleansed there. Less than 20% of the population left. We're talking about South Ossetia. I don’t know whether you know what's this population of South Ossetia is: 6,000 people... 6,000 people… And we're talking about so-called independent State. So, you know, we're talking right now in many ways about fictions. The reality is that whoever is left, even this 6,000; even 80,000 people in Abkhazia, we need our citizens; we reach out to them.

And I think we are fighting for common European future. We are trying to develop. We are trying to make it. We are trying to show everybody that we are working, through election process; through democracy; through economic development, to become more than a European State. And I think that Georgia has made tremendous advances, and you know, by not only inviting Secretary General - all of you are invited to come and see, to witness first hand. On the other, you know, we are talking about hypothetical issues. I think there were cases when, you know, the country was divided to become a member of NATO. I hope these divisions will be overcome before then.

And I think this thing, the whole thing will happen much earlier than any of us can imagine. But you know, we need to work. And it's not about us just making wild guess, when exactly and what date. You know, some people say in 2012 there will be no world anymore, including NATO. But you know, we don't necessarily believe it, thank you.

JAMES APPATHURAI: That's all we have time for...

MIKHEIL SAAKASHVILI: Thank you.