From the event

NATO HQ

24 Aug 2007

Interview

with Jean Fournet, Assistant Secretary General for Public Diplomacy

Q:  Monsieur Fournet, you've been with us for 6 1/2 years now and you will be leaving us in a few days time.  Could you tell us for you what was the most significant event that took place while you here?

Jean FOURNET (NATO Assistant Secretary General for Public Diplomacy):  Well, the most significant and the most emotional also was obviously 9/11.  You know, it was six months after my arrival at NATO.  And I'm not going to elaborate on this.  Everybody knows.  But I'm going to elaborate on the consequences for the organization.  It triggered a major change in the way we think, in the way we work, in the way we organize ourselves because we had to address the new challenges of the day:  terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, failed States, trafficking of all sorts.  And for this, the organization has to set up a new organization, a new structure and also to launch a new initiative which we did.

Q:  It was also a historic moment for NATO due to the fact that it invoked Article 5.

FOURNET :   Absolutely, for the first time in its history, NATO involved this collective article, meaning that if there is an attack on one of the member nations all the other feel that they're also attacked and they join together in collective and solidarity spirit.  This was the first time. 

Q:  Could you explain how you lived that?  But perhaps as ASG, you attended the council meeting when the decision was taken.

FOURNET:   Yes, of course, but we attended also an important meeting in the Office of the Secretariat General which he convened a few hours after we realized it was a major attack.  And of course, we had to think of it and tried to propose ideas, initiatives and so on and so forth.  And afterwards, there was a Council meeting with Ambassadors discussing with their capital and taking decisions.  In 24 hours, we were able to invoke Article 5.  As you say, meaning when security is at stake at NATO, even if we need consensus to take decisions, we can achieve that in a very limited period of time.

Q:  Monsieur Fournet, you're Assistant Secretary General for Public Diplomacy but if I remember correctly you were appointed as Assistant Secretary General for Science and in the meantime the two have been brought together, science and information, to form public diplomacy.  Could you explain to us how these two areas actually are linked together?

FOURNET:   This is also an offset of this restructuring which took place after 9/11. You know, we had to better organize ourselves as I said.  And one of the challenges that we were facing was to reach out to the civil society, meaning explain what we do to the journalists, to the parliamentarians, to the think-tankers but also to the scientific community because the scientific community is an important component of the civil society and specifically in those Partner countries where the top leadership has been educated in a system where a scientific background was essential.  So coming with scientific tool to speak about NATO is sometime like having a key to open a door, you know, and when you have opened the door you can start discussing with the other persons which are on the other side.

Q:  So in fact, the science program has an important role to play within NATO as a security organization?

FOURNET:   Exactly.  Exactly.  It has an important role to play.  We have to make it clear:  NATO is a political and military organization for collective security.  So it's not meant for development.  It's not meant for promoting science and so on and so forth.  But science is a tool that every big organization must have.  And even if it is limited in scope, and even if it is limited in budget, we bring together scientists, we develop collaborative activities.  And at the end of the day, I think that we speak, maybe, in a more neutral way of NATO and specifically to those countries that have still difficulty to view NATO as something else but a relic of the Cold War.  And I think coming with scientific programs, for instance how to help them connect to the Internet, that's very important and positively viewed, how to build a facility to get rid of pesticide or to get rid of chemicals that have been left over after the demise of the Soviet Union. This is also something which is viewed very positively by the community and the local people.

Q:  So NATO brings his expertise to these countries?

FOURNET:   We bring the expertise, the networks of scientists... It's about networking.  Science is about networking.  But public diplomacy is also about networking.  So you see there are many links between the two. nd to be honest it was not easy at the beginning to bring the two teams together.  I will not say that we have achieved the fusion 100% but we are certainly using far better our science tool for public diplomacy and our communication tool for promoting also the science program of NATO.

Q:  You use the term "tool" in science... using science as a tool.  What tools are used within public diplomacy?  How does public diplomacy try to get his message out in a modern way, a way that touches your target audiences?

FOURNET:   Well, touching target audiences meaning having a possibility to engage in dialogue, and dialogue with trust and confidence.  We are about substance and (INAUDIBLE) not about sugar coating.  This is very important to bear in mind.  For this, we organize a lot of  "visit tools", "speaking tools", seminars, but this is traditional. What is not traditional is that we want to organize some flagship events.  Flagship events are very important concentrated events where we bring together different groups of people, different opportunities, different events themselves.

Q:  High level?  High level events?

FOURNET:   High level events of course, it's essential of course to reach out to the high level, to the opinion shapers, but also something which is more at the expert level. Because it's also important to have them together, if we can, in one week, for instance.  We have the NATO week in many countries now, a very good example. So we have seminars, we have political contacts, we have opening of NATO schools.  All these taking place the same week provide good opportunities for messaging, for radio, for audio, for video, for T.V., for everything, you know, so these flagship events. 

Website, more and more websites are created, but the one that we've had at NATO we think it's a very good one, and we would like also to develop it, to see new techniques and also building on this sort of appetite of young generations for videos, you know.

If we want to pass our message, we need to use these tools that are really interesting for younger generations.  Because reaching out to young generations is one of our tasks, one of our goals, remit... which I got from the North Atlantic Council.  So many other tools.  I could expand for hours on this.  But also different audiences.

When I say reaching out to the opinion shapers in countries, what does it mean?  Businessmen, business leaders are also important because security for them is essential to develop their business.  But their business might be also linked to the security products. 

Women Associations... more and more women are interested in security for obvious reasons.  It was not the case in the past but it is now.  So we have to engage in dialogue with them. 

Religious leaders, they want to know what's NATO for, they want to explain that to their... their...

Q:  So religious leaders come to NATO headquarters?

FOURNET:   Yes, of course.  We had...  And this was a very interesting event when...  A couple of years ago, we had here all religions represented in Ukraine for instance that were in the corridors at NATO, people in their dark suits, you know, were there…  All of our NATO colleagues were a bit surprised, but this is also something we want to do. Those people who are also... let's say artists... I shouldn't say artists, but those people who are influential in their country and interested in security, we would like also have a dialogue with them, because they could pass the message.

Q:  Basically, you like to sensitize people at different levels and different parts of public opinion.

FOURNET:   Absolutely, exactly.  That's exactly what we want to do.  But this is only one side of our job.  I mean passing information... informing about NATO.  I used frequently the word "dialogue" and "dialogue" means "both ways".  We've also have to listen.  Sometimes, we do not listen enough, listening to people, what do they have to do about security, which are their concerns locally?  What do they think of NATO?  What should we do more? Or less?  Or differently?  This is something that we have to learn from them.  And this only through frank and open dialogue.  Sometime it's difficult.

Q:  You've been mentioning these challenges.  And what seems to come out as a fact is that a multicultural environment does, actually, make misunderstandings more frequent, or the possibility of misunderstandings more frequent.  To what extent has this multicultural environment  perhaps slowed down the public diplomacy work or hindered it in any way?

FOURNET:   Well, I don't know if it slows down our activity, the process of our activities.  For sure, it makes our activities more complicated.  But also it's more interesting because well, we're living in a world where diversity... the diversity, many different countries, religion, tradition, histories.  And we have to take this into account.  At NATO, we are 26 nations.  Twenty-six nations, many different languages.  We have, of course, only two official languages, but, well, people are speaking together with their national representatives.  And they're speaking in different languages, from different cultures.  But, for me, this is an asset.  Even if it is a challenge it is an asset because we've always something to learn, from people who come from different cultures.

Q:  If I may ask a slightly more personal question...?

FOURNET:   Yes, I don't like that.

Q:  What will you miss at NATO?

FOURNET:   Oh, that's not very difficult.  I will miss the people.  I will really miss the people.  The people I’ve been working with are very good teams.  But also the people, my colleagues, in other divisions.  Because you know, something which I have learned in this big organization : there's a collective spirit.  This is something unique.  But when I say I will miss the people, it's not only the internal staff.  It's also all those with whom I have been discussing over the years in NATO countries, important countries, in Arab countries.  All those people that wanted to learn more about NATO.  And all those people I wanted to learn more from them on the security situation in the region of the world where they are.  I wanted to learn more on their understanding of what partnership should be.  I wanted to learn more on their cultural way of life, on their behaviours, why they reacted that way and why we, at NATO, sometimes we reacted differently.  This is something, dialogue, networking which I will certainly miss.  That doesn't mean that in the future I will not find other opportunities to follow the same or similar path.  But at NATO I think it was really great to have this opportunity with so many... so many different countries.

Q:  If I may just ask one last question, what advice would you give to your successor?

FOURNET:   I would give a very important advice not to seek my advice and follow his own path, his own route, his own ideas, build on his skills and experience.  But if he doesn't want to follow this advice, then I would give him two more:  one is change and continuity.  Continuity, usuallywe've got instruction from the Council to do something.  We have to implement that and he has to do it.  But change because change is a driver; it's an engine to make progress.  And it should come with fresh ideas and shed new light on what we have done and what we could do.  And the third advice is you should start immediately, he shouldn't wait too long to understand what's going on.

Q: Jump in at the deep end?

FOURNET: exactly.

Q: OK. Thank you very much

FOURNET: You are most welcome.