Press point

by NATO Secretary General, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer
and Shaukat Aziz, Prime Minister of Pakistan

De Hoop Scheffer: Let me start by saying how much I as Secretary General but also the North Atlantic Council appreciates the visit of the Pakistani Prime Minister.  Prime Minister was here talking to me.  This meeting was even more important because the Prime Minister addressed the North Atlantic Council. 

A very important visit for two reasons.  First of all, because Pakistan is what it is: an important player in the region and also beyond the region.  And the Riga Summit...  As you know, during the Riga Summit, NATO heads of States and government decided to reach out and to have an intensive dialogue with important partners like Pakistan.  There's of course a second reason which, of course, was very much on the minds of the ambassadors and that is the fact that NATO-ISAF is active in Afghanistan.  And that of course, Pakistan being the neighbour having a long border is playing an important role in trying to get Afghanistan right. 

I think we all agreed.  And the Prime Minister said in so many words that we should all.... I repeat all be proactive and support everybody who does anything which can prevent those elements who want to create havoc in Afghanistan, anti-ISAF, against-the Afghan government.  The same people, by the way, who create havoc elsewhere in the general fight against terrorism.  But we all should step up our efforts without any exception to see that we get things right.  Of course, the border was discussed.  And I think the prime minister and I very much agree that on both sides of the border it is of extreme importance that we do everything to protect this porous complicated border. 

Final remark, it is important that we adhere to the principle of the comprehensive approach.  There is no military answer in Afghanistan.  The answer in Afghanistan reads development, reconstruction, where by the way Pakistan also plays a role. 

But remember the ministerial meeting we had here last Friday.  The central theme was the comprehensive approach.  I think it does not make sense... it does not make sense a blame game in public.  Are you doing enough? Are you doing enough?  We should all do more because we all don't do enough because we're still faced, all of us, with a huge problem which is called terrorism, which is called people creating havoc.  And I think the importance of the visit of the Pakistani Prime Mnister this morning, was very much that we had an open and we had a frank dialogue.  And we should continue that dialogue because my final word will be that we have, of course, an excellent military- to- military cooperation. 

I think a lot of trust has been built by NATO coming to the assistance in Pakistan after the horrible earthquake for humanitarian reasons.  That, in itself, built trust between Pakistan and NATO.  We have to build on that trust.  And I think the prime minister's visit is a sign and an indication that we're all in agreement that we should have also a more intensive political dialogue between Pakistan and NATO. 

Prime Minister, please, this is what I had to say, warmingly welcoming you at NATO Headquarters.

Aziz:  Thank you Secretary General.  I must say we've had a very important few hours of discussion with the Secretary General and the NATO Council, where we covered a host of issues.  May I say that Pakistan and NATO both have agreed that in the context of Afghanistan which was clearly the main point of discussion today, all sides have to do more.  And all sides are committed to a strong, stable, peaceful Afghanistan.  That is important for peace in South Asia, for peace in that region, and peace in the world. 

In my remarks and discussions I raised a few points for the benefit of the Secretary General and the NATO Council members.  Some of the issues related to the strategy for refugees, three million of whom are in Pakistan at the moment in terms of their return to Afghanistan. 

Secondly, the level of drug production in Afghanistan and the nexus this creates because of drug money and terrorism finding a home.  And this represents a threat for the whole world.  We also talked about development in Afghanistan.  I explained in economic development.  Pakistan has played its part.  The whole world is playing its part.  And both Pakistan and Afghanistan need to be supported by the world community in terms of market access, in terms of assistance etc to create jobs, to improve their economies and of course contribute to peace in the region. 

We've had, I thought, a very frank exchange today Mister Secretary General.  We have invited the Secretary General and the Council to visit Pakistan, to continue this process of engagement at all levels.  And we see that for Afghanistan a holistic approach is needed.  Approach which will help their economy, help their development, help the security and give the people of Afghanistan a better future. 

Pakistan certainly  wants that because a strong, stable Afghanistan is good for us.  If our neighbourhood is peaceful, we will benefit.  And we are totally committed to going and participating in a global effort in which NATO is an important player to have an Afghanistan which improves, develops and returns to normalcy. 

So I think it is the beginning of a process where we will interact with each other.  And our shared objectives are similar which is to continue efforts for peace, progress and prosperity in the world, including Afghanistan and including that region. 

And I'm also pleased to hear from the Secretary General that no longer are we saying... “Pakistan needs to do more”,  but “all of us have to do more”.  We all have to meet our responsibilities.  Our roles have to be defined and the level of communication between all stakeholders in this case, NATO and Pakistan has to be maintained at all levels so that we achieve our objectives.  Thank you very much Mister Secretary General, for giving me this opportunity.

Questions and answers

Q:  Shada Islam from Dawn newspaper.  Secretary General, you said you're not playing the blame game.  But on Friday, foreign ministers from NATO did ask Pakistan to do more for cross-border infiltration of insurgents.  Are you confident now that Pakistan is going to take the measures, is taking the measures that it has promised to take? 

And Prime Minister, were you able to give assurance that you are doing all you can, and in fact you will do more to try stop this infiltration?
And also you've talked about a political relationship between the two sides.  Can you explain a little bit of that, thank you.

De Hoop Scheffer:  Let me briefly repeat what I said in the same building two weeks ago.  What did I say?  I said it does not make sense to say that Pakistan is part of the problem.  Pakistan is part of the solution, as much as NATO and Afghanistan are part of the solution.  But you can say that in a negative way.  And you can say we're not doing enough.  I'd rather say:  "Let's all do more than we have done up till now."  That is a more positive way of phrasing.  And if I say all I mean all.  And that is what you heard the Prime Minister say in so many words. 

It is impossible to say to Pakistan, this is your problem, you find a solution.  It is more than that, because a border usually has two sides and not only one.  So we should work there and we should see that we commonly fight those people who want to destroy what NATO is trying to do in Afghanistan and more importantly those people who want to destroy our basic values.  Because this is behind all of this of course in the fight against terrorism. 

And that is exactly the message you heard from NATO foreign ministers last Friday.  And they're lining, once again, the comprehensive approach.  The Prime Minister speaks about a holistic approach.  We mean the same.  And that is not leave the illusion that only be being there militarily and by not having the full engagement of the United Nations, of the World Bank, of the European Union, of all the other main actors we could ever see a democratic, prosperous Afghanistan. 

That is the central message.  And I think that is the message which  was reinforced during the prime minister's visit here this morning.

Aziz:  Madam, just adding to what the Secretary General said and I agree with what he said.  We need a holistic approach for Afghanistan.  Afghanistan is in our neighbourhood.  We want them to be peaceful.  We want them to grow and develop.  And this holistic approach includes a security dimension, a military dimension, an economic and development dimension, a refugee dimension. 

And all these and other aspects have to be addressed.  And all of us can and should do whatever is necessary to create the right atmosphere so that Afghanistan returns to normalcy.  And I think that was from our perspective, from Pakistan's perspective, we made this absolutely clear that we are committed.  We are doing all we can.  We'll continue to do what has to be done to ensure security, ensure peace and also by helping Afghanistan, we're helping ourselves.  We discussed at length the future of the refugees, the future of economic initiatives which can be taken. 

We discussed military and security and political dialogue at all levels so that this major challenge which faces us can be resolved.  And clearly, I also expressed my concerns on the continuing production of drugs in Afghanistan and the nexus between drugs and terrorism which is a threat to all of us no matter where we are in the region and in the world. 

Q:  To Secretary General, I would like to ask you, Pakistan committed and sacrificed 600 of his fine soldiers in the Northern areas as compared to 400 by NATO.  Despite of that, your pressure you're exerting on the government of Pakistan, are you considering at all the vital stake interest of the country if this pressure continues, that the inside fabric of Pakistan can be disturbed with this?

De Hoop Scheffer:   I don't like the word "pressure" because there is no pressure.  There's no pressure not from any side.  There is no pressure.  I can... I can say this in a different way.  I repeat I do not see any sense in public rhetoric from whatever side it comes.  It makes no sense.  We have a big challenge. 

And we, as Pakistan, as much as Afghanistan, as much as NATO, because we have to win hearts and minds, dear Sir, not only in Afghanistan but also win hearts and minds as I said in the council for the public and parliamentary opinion in the NATO nations to keep the support for 32,000 soldiers being in Afghanistan fighting there unfortunately from time to time and paying the highest price as Pakistani soldiers have paid the highest price; and many of them.  But let's not phrase it... this in terms of pressure, because there is no pressure.  And I think pressure is always wrong because it's of no avail.

Aziz:  Let me just conclude by saying that we're working on shared objectives.  We are working on a common goal and the battle in Afghanistan is the battle to win the hearts and minds of the people.  And this is what we have focussed on today.  This is where we discussed in detail the various measures.  And everybody is doing it, whether it's Pakistan, NATO or many of the stakeholders who were active in Afghanistan, they are performing their responsibilities to make sure Afghanistan becomes peaceful, returns to normalcy.  And we have a region in the world which develops, grows and does provide a better future for its people. 

Thank you very much. 

And by the way, my remarks to the Council, the hard copy is available.  So you can pick up a copy and you will see what we discussed there. 

Thank you very much.