NATO, Brussels 20 Oct. 2006

Interview with Mr. Fournet, Pof. Dinçer Űlkű and Dr. Keith Gardner Multimedia Audio file of the speech (.MP3/6,662kb) Video file of the speech INTERVIEWER: Today the new SPS committee held its first meeting. Mr. Fournet, as chairman of this committee, could you tell us how and why it was created and what are its main objectives? JEAN FOURNET (Chairman, Science for Peace and Security Committee): Yes of course. I think it's important to say that this new committee was created end of June this year. But it's a product which resulted of an evolution of two previous committees. One, the Science committee created more than 40 years ago. Another one, the Committee on the Challenges of Modern Society, created more than 30 years ago. And over the years this very important committee with the very important programs that they were supporting and controlling had evolved in such a way that there was some overlapping. At the same time, the security environment had changed and we thought that it would be wise to try to take the best of the two committees; to disband them and to create a new one and to create a new one that would, as I said, not only take the best of the two previous ones, but also would be in line with the evolution of the security environment and in line with the evolution of NATO. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. Professor Ülkü you've had a lot of experience with science co-operation in NATO. What do you see as some of the major benefits for the Partner and Mediterranean Dialogue countries? PROFESSOR DINÇER ÜLKÜ (Science for Peace and Security Committee): Well our support program today has about a dozen of different ways of supporting research projects. As far as I'm concerned, the most important support schemes are for the Partner countries, as well as Mediterranean Dialogue, the collaborative research grants probably. This is when NATO country scientists could collaborate in a research project with a Partner country scientist. The second one is probably the what we call Virtual Silk Highway which connects the Partner countries’ scientists with the rest of the world. So this is probably our flagship project, which involves the Caucasus countries and Central Asian, former Soviet Republics. Then there is another mechanism which we call Reintegration Grants. As you know brain drain has been always a problem. So this program encourages Partner country scientists who have been working in some NATO countries for some years to go back to their home countries and do the research there. As I said before, we have a dozen of different mechanisms, but these three are probably very important. Also for Mediterranean Dialogue countries, this program is trying to encourage the regional co-operation which we believe not only important for scientific reasons, but also maybe bring peace to the region. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. And Mr. Fournet, when you travel to the Partner and Mediterranean Dialogue countries, what is the response to these programs? Do people see it as positive? FOURNET: Let me tell you this is something which is very important because in my capacity I'm not only the chairman of the new Science for Peace and Security program and committee, but I am also the person in charge of public diplomacy. So I travel a lot in these countries and when I discuss with the officials what they like is the self-security aspect of this program because it helps scientists to meet together from NATO countries, from Partner countries, from Mediterranean Dialogue countries, and to exchange views on the way that science can bring new ideas, generate new ideas for a safer world. Let me tell you that if I want to encapsulate what we want to achieve today with this new committee and this new program, I would say it has to be NATO relevant, meaning in line with the NATO priorities of the day; but it has to be Partner-oriented, partner in the generic term including the Mediterranean Dialogue countries. It has to build upon the funds available under the form of seed money, you know, seed money to launch seed projects. And this is what is so attractive for these Partners because we help them with limited amount of money on some project that might be a catalyst for developing our relationship with them, for developing an approach of self-security. And afterwards, it will be available for other organizations, other institutions, to take the relay, who will pass the baton. And at the same time for these countries, it's also a very clear sign that NATO is not only military or purely political, it's also an organization with another dimension. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. Dr. Gardner, could you tell us about some of the projects which are currently underway with Partner countries? DR. KEITH GARDNER (Science for Peace and Security Committee): Be happy to. Professor Ülkü mentioned the Virtual Silk Highway project which is our largest project and as he said this is a huge impact project in the Caucasus, Central Asia and it's now been extended to Afghanistan as well. But there are other projects. We have literally hundreds of activities and different sorts of mechanisms. But the concrete projects where we get experts working with the Partner countries in order to be able to conduct activities which are of benefit to them really matter. Let me mention a couple. One that was started this summer is on melange destruction. Melange is a highly toxic, very, very corrosive material; a liquid that was used as an oxidizer for rocket fuel and there are thousands, tens of thousands of tonnes of this material which have been stored in various locations throughout the former Soviet Union. Two years ago the Science committee met in Azerbaijan and at that time the Azeris said that this is a major health and environmental problem for them and they asked us to see if there was something we could do about it. So we looked into it; we got experts together; we were able to design a project in which we'll be able to convert the 1,200 tonnes of this material in Azerbaijan within the coming months. It's underway now; we have a conversion facility which is there and it's interesting because being able to do something on that scale is not obvious. Something that's easy to do in the laboratory may be very difficult to do when you're dealing with tonnes and tonnes of material. And the plant now is in operation; it's converting five tonnes of the material per day and by the middle of next year we expect it will have converted their whole stock of material in an environmentally friendly way to produce a low grade fertilizer which can be used in their agricultural industry. So it's really a perfect solution to a serious problem they've had. Other examples: we're dealing with explosives detection; a clear need in countries that are worried about the terrorist threat and being able to locate suicide bombers. And a variety of other things: radiological risk, looking at the environmental security issues in many of the countries that we deal with and there is broad interest in the Partner countries in dealing within the NATO context because we're able to do things in a very concrete way. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. Professor Ülkü, you were a member of the previous Science committee and you have been appointed to the new SPS committee. What are the differences between your previous committee and the new SPS committee and how has your role changed? ÜLKÜ: Well, NATO science program started in '58. At that time the main purpose of this program was to show the world that NATO had another dimension also, not only military. And the science program was geared towards the highest quality science and research; basically pure science. And as the time passed the Council... NATO Council especially decided the science program of NATO should be more NATO relevant. So we switched more or less with this new committee to problem solving scientific activities. As you know you do scientific activities or scientific research basically for three reasons. Either you do basic research to understand the secrets of the nature or you do research, scientific research, (inaudible) scientific activities to develop the product or you do research to solve problems. Now the new committee is geared towards solving problems as mentioned before, environmental security and peace and toxic wastes and radioactive waste. So if I may compare with one word: the previous committee dealt with pure and the highest quality science; the committee, SPS today, is dealing with problem solving. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. Dr. Gardner I understand the new SPS committee will operate under key priorities which define the scope of its work. Could you describe these priorities? GARDNER: Yes. This has been a matter of long discussion trying to identify those areas in which we can do problem solving, as Professor Ülkü has indicated, and there are three broad areas in which we want to conduct activity. The first is in defence against terrorism, which is a common problem among all the NATO and the Partner and Mediterranean Dialogue countries, something that has to be addressed. And we're looking at ways that we can use scientific and technological knowledge in order to address those problems. I mentioned before explosive detection which is in that category. But looking a cyber security, computer attacks, looking at how to rapidly diagnose diseases which may be biological attacks. We have one project for instance that's dealing with identifying anthrax and that definitely falls into the defence against terrorism area. Another aspect of that is in human and societal dynamics, trying to find out the roots of terrorism; getting experts together looking at the sociological and psychological issues. So defence against terrorism is one. A second is countering other threats to security and this includes such things as the environmental security and issues that countries are interested in which are not terrorism, but which are real threats to their own societies and we want to be able to support them in those roles. The third area is priorities of the countries themselves. We want to go to the Partners and to the Mediterranean Dialogue countries and ask them what are the problems that they have, to harmonize those as far as possible with NATO's priorities; but really to listen to them and to make sure we understand their needs, their interests and what is ongoing to be best for their societies. And so those are the three areas of key priorities that we have. INTERVIEWER: Thank you. And last question : I'd like to look towards the future. Mr. Fournet, could you give us an assessment of the potential of the SPS and your estimate of what it could actually accomplish? FOURNET: Well you know when the Heads of State and Government will meet in Riga by the end of November, a point, a very important point on the agenda will be how to improve Partnership. I mean, what we are achieving, what my colleagues have been explaining, is precisely how we can better work on tangible projects with Partners; tangible projects with Partners, as I said, NATO relevant addressing these challenges and threats that Keith Gardner was just explaining. And also meeting the Partner requests for more co-operation with NATO in fields which are directly understandable by their people because it's something which has a direct impact on their way of life and their security. This being said, since there are other sorts of activities we will conduct in our new Science for Peace program, I can see a bright future for it. I can see bright future provided of course that we have enough funds to conduct these activities, because without money, you know, nothing can be really achieved.