NATO HQ
Brussels,

14 Apr. 1999

Audio file
(.MP3/4.10 MB)

Mrs Ogata and myself, we have agreed to continue as we have done before, our permanent consultations and liaison at all levels in order to ensure the maximum cooperation and support for the splendid efforts of the organisation that she is responsible for.

Mrs Ogata: Thank you very much, Secretary General. I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity.

I would just like to start by giving you some of the numbers of refugees that have crossed over from Kosovo. The total number of Kosovars who have come to the region - Albania, Macedonia and Montenegro - is 525,000. Into Albania 314,000. Macedonia, the number I had before coming here was 116,000. Since I arrived at NATO Headquarters I have just been informed that another 1,800 - 2,000 have crossed into Macedonia and we expect another 2,000, they have arrived by train, which is a bad symptom. I hope it is not going to be the repetition. The Macedonian government has kept the border open and we will have to make sure that they will be taken to the transit centre and will be processed correctly, and this is what I expect very much is going to be maybe a difficult operation again. To Montenegro, 67,000.

My office and the NGOs are gaining control of the situation. We do have more than 100 expatriates, that is the international professionals, on the ground and it is a large operation for us, we are not the military, we don't have hundreds and thousands of soldiers but I think we can manage because we have been doing this, it is my mandate to protect refugees and to run these operations.

We have had some criticism that we were slow, inefficient, so on. I think we have turned around, I think the situation is improving. I was in the region, Albania, Macedonia and in the border areas, I think we are now under control.

I am very worried about those who are in Kosovo. My colleagues were giving humanitarian assistance until 23 March to about 400,000 people and they are thinking about the people who are left behind, we don't know exactly how many there are because many of them left, were forced to leave, and there may be more who were forced to be displaced. But we will be able to go back only if there is security assured, which would mean the withdrawal of Serb forces and deployment of international military forces there too. That is security assurance is the basic condition under which we can go back and really do the humanitarian work.

I came here to carry on further consultation with the Secretary General and his staff. We have to make sure, I have asked for NATO member states to provide support because we need it, their airlift capacity, their airport and seaport logistic capacity, some of the site constructions and I am very grateful for the support we have gotten, especially in the border area in Macedonia, the Bradze transit centre, I was able to be there and see the operations. We are now able to hand over from the military to UNHCR, we are planning to be on Friday the 17th.

This is a very clear example of how the KFOR staff, coming in to help us with the logistics and the management of the camp at a time when we needed their support, but quickly turning over to the civilian management, that is UNHCR management, bringing in the NGOs on a sectoral basis, and I think this is the first of the transfer of functions that will be followed next week in a few camps in Macedonia.

I came also to ask in Albania from the Secretary General to clarify the mission and the functions of AFOR forces that will be deployed. I think my overall concern is that the civilian nature of the operation, because this is a refugee crisis and it is for refugee protection and assistance that NATO has offered its support and we should maintain the civilian nature of the camps, the civilian nature of the operations, and I was very happy to have a very frank discussion with Secretary Solana and his staff, assuring me that NATO is at our disposal for whatever functions that we ask for because that is the purpose of the AFOR forces.

Jonathan: A question to each of you regarding the plight of the displaced people inside Kosovo. Clearly however tragic the circumstances of those who have actualy made it to the camps, what is probably unfolding in Kosovo itself is very disturbing. Mrs Ogata, could you say whether any other civilian international organisations might be able to intervene there, even with the crisis going on, I imagine the International Red Cross or whatever, is there a possibility of that? And to the Secretary General, the answer which Jamie gave to this answer earlier was that the thing to do is to win and therefore to be able to grapple with the problem on the ground. Surely NATO has chosen a strategy which for a variety of reasons may bring victory but it is going to bring victory only over a considerable time period and surely it is time that these refugees inside Kosovo do not have?

Mrs Ogata: The International Committee of the Red Cross did stay about a week after we left. The United Nations announced that the security situation is one in which we all had to leave. Now the Red Cross also left because they couldn't really function any more and I know that the President has contacted Mr Milosevic to see if he could consult with him for some kind of a return. I think they will be ready to return if there is any assurance of security and certain access, and I am watching this very much because it would be very useful for us too.

Secretary General Solana: What the situation, as Madam Ogata has said, of the people who are displaced, we don't even know exactly the numbers, in Kosovo is of great concern. But the only possibility we have at this point is for President Milosevic to stop killing, it is the responsibility of himself to have all these people displaced. We are working here with the military authorities analysing all the possibilities, we have analysed also with Madam Ogata all the possibilities so that we get a working approach that may be possible, we will implement it immediately. But let me stress one thing. The responsibility of the situation of these people is like and President Milosevic can immediately, immediately, change completely and particularly the conditions of these people which are in the mountains.

JIM: Madam Ogata, can you tell us from your staff, is there any estimate of how long those refugees will be able to last, any indication of how much supplies they might have, what kind of a time frame we are talking about before they get into a critical starvation situation? And Secretary General Solana, in that case would NATO consider some extraordinary action on the ground to meet a humanitarian disaster like this, even outside the framework of what you have stated very clearly?

Mrs Ogata: How long they can last inside Kosovo is what you are asking. A lot of people are maybe even forced to leave still, this might continue, which means that those people who are remaining are fewer. I don't know how many there are there now because at the time we were still functioning, those who were displaced were about 260 - 270,000 or thereabouts, displaced. More than half a million have left since then. But I know one thing, that those who are displaced are in very difficult conditions, probably hiding in the mountains and getting food may be getting more difficult. One thing I can say is looking at those who left, even those who were in the no-man's land outside Macedonia for 6 or 7 days, their health condition was not all that bad, they bounced back after 2 days in their camp, which means that the starvation possibility may not be as acute today but it will be acute later. I don't know how many days, how many weeks they can last, I don't know, this is why I am very worried. But the thing that the refugees talk about, and we talk a lot with them, are not so much starvation but the atrocities that many of them are suffering, being forced out at gunpoint 1 hour, or even 5 minutes, get out of your house. That is the most acute form of suffering that they all share with us.

Secretary General Solana: As I said, before we have been working this afternoon with Madam Ogata and her team on possible initiatives which are very difficult, all of them. The military authorities have as a priority now to study all the possible alternatives, all the possible alternatives are very difficult, very risky, but we are studying all of those with the utmost care and we will find out with some solution to solve that problem. But as Madam Ogata has said, it is a very, very difficult situation. We don't even have information exactly about where the majority of the people are and one of the things we are going to do together is to try to investigage from the people that do come to Macedonia, to Albania, to see if we can identify the places because any operation that could be done, consider for instance air drops or something like that, in a terrain which is as you know very, very complicated, we need to know the co-ordinates very, very precisely. So all the information that we are gathering, it will be very, very valuable for that.

Mrs Ogata: And if I could just add, the people, up to about 4,000, who are being forced out tonight into Macedonia come from a village that is not too far from Pristina. So from that kind of outflow we can sort of guess where people have been forced out, where they are remaining.

Channel 4: We are just getting initial reports of a NATO hit on a 100 vehicle convoy of would-be refugees on the road between Djakovica and Prisn, I wondered if you had any information on that and also what you can do to avoid this kind of problem?

Secretary General Solana: I have no information whatsoever. I have been since 1400h in different meetings with Mr Annan, the ABC, an hour and a half with Madam Ogata, I have half an hour now to go to my role and I will try to find out, that is the first news I have, and after that I will have Madam Arbour, so I will be in a very complicated afternoon, but I will try to find out.

Dimitri: Madam Ogata, you seemed quite at a loss at the beginning, UNHCR did not look as if it had the means to deal with the crisis even though the crisis had been in preparation for weeks, would you have now the means to deal with the crisis for weeks perhaps to come?

Mrs Ogata: (Not interpreted)

Secretary General Solana: (Not interpreted)

Dak: Is there not in the world one neutral country which enjoys sufficient trust from both sides that could organise convoys into these people within a reasonable time?

Mrs Ogata: Neutrality is important at the same time and I think there are relatively speaking countries that are more acceptable than others, maybe. But what we are talking about is a real conflict, intense fighting, and neutrality doesn't assure your safety. I think it is the security assurance that is required and I don't think the parties which are in conflict are in a position to assure security, this is the real problem.