IFOR LANDCENT Transcript Dec 12, 1996

In the interest of speed transcripts of IFOR press briefings are issued in unedited format Transcript of Press Briefing held on 12 December 1996

Colum Murphy: good morning. As you know today the presidency of Bosnia Herzegovina meets again in Sarajevo. And out of that meeting we do hope for progress on a council of ministers. The agreements on detention are also still on the table, and ripe for adoption. For the presidents to accept these agreements would result in the early release of some 50 prisoners, among other things. On the subject of gas, as we continue to battle the Cold in Sarajevo, we continue to await some positive outcome of the recent talks. We still believe that Sarajevans can be warm this Winter as they deserve to be. Finally as to the aborted meeting yesterday of the presidency, the UNICEF element went ahead to a degree. This as you know was the occasion of UNICEF’s 50th birthday. The document and agreement between UNICEF and Bosnia Herzegovina was not signed, but we still hold out hopes for that signature also today. David. David Foley: good morning. I’ve got a number of items here this morning, a couple of press releases some of you may have seen, one you have not. I will read it right now. The OSCE strongly condemns the ongoing illegal evictions in West Mostar. The evictions appear to have increased substantially, with more than six evictions in less than two weeks. Also there were reports of another one yesterday. The recent evictions, which have been particularly violent, have targeted the elderly and disabled. Investigations indicate that the perpetrators often are men in uniform. The evictions have continued despite promises by year Mostar mayor and government officials to stop these violations of basic human rights, Annex 6 of the Dayton Peace Agreement, and of the European convention on human rights. The OSCE calls on all authorities to respect their commitments made in Dayton and urges them to do everything in their power to stop such evictions and to take legal action against the perpetrators. Also the media, the regional media experts commission in Mostar or media expert subcommission in Mostar, excuse me, is restarting its activity and we have issued a press release on this as well. All users of media and all media professionals in canton 6,7, and 8, shall be encouraged to submit complaints to the media expert subcommission in Mostar if they observe any of the following occurrences: news reporting which is not factually accurate, complete, fair, equitable and unbiased, cases of distortion, suppression, falsification, misrepresentation, and censorship, use of inflammatory language by the media, violation of freedom of movement and security of journalists, unequitable access for political parties and candidates participating in the municipal elections. And it is not necessary all of those violations be present in each complaint. The media expert subcommission is founded on the basis of Provisional Election Commission rules and regulations and I have more details available on that if you need it. Also a press release issued yesterday, the OSCE condemns the decision of the Croatian government to award General Tihomir Blaskic with the service medal for his role in the offensive against the breakaway Krajina Serbs. General Blaskic is under indictment by the International Criminal Tribunal for Former Yugoslavia in The Hague. The OSCE considers the decoration of General Blaskic as highly inappropriate. Also OSCE democratization staff is organizing a meeting of the women’s groups "Livwomen" from Livno, and "Women of the UNA" in early December to discuss cultural issues. The latter group is planning a seminar on "human rights and occupancy rights" for women in the canton later this month. OSCE is also supporting the efforts of alternative media professionals to establish a "newspaper bridge" between the Republika Srpska and the federation. OSCE has agreed with the federation ministry of the interior to provide human rights training to police chiefs in the Zenica-Doboj canton beginning in January and will also begin similar training courses for teachers in Orasje area. Lastly a church announcement. The political parties consultative council will hold a meeting tomorrow at 12:30 at the OSCE headquarters in Sarajevo at the bank building.

I think every one should be aware that the PPCC a forum created by the OSCE for consultations between the OSCE, the Provisional Election Commission, political parties and independent candidates. During this meeting the participants will be discussing the upcoming municipal elections to be held in June 1997. And the OSCE warmly welcomes the presence of all media though you are not allowed to participate in the meeting. Also there is a Provisional Election Commission meeting scheduled for tomorrow in the morning and then Ambassador Frowick is expected to be at the PPCC meeting following that PEC meeting. Alex. Alex Ivanko: yesterday evening, the UN police commissioner, Peter Fitzgerald, on behalf of the principals met with Republika Srpska minister of interior Dragan Kijac, to register the principals dismay at the use of Republika Srpska police to escort an indicted war criminal. The Commissioner reiterated that it was the minister’s obligations under Dayton to arrest and transfer indicted war criminals to The Hague. The commissioner also demanded the surrender of the unauthorized weapons carried by the escort. Minster Kijac responded by saying he does not understand the urgency of the matter and does not know anything about it. The minister did promise to conduct an investigation and report back to the Commissioner but re-emphasized that the RS authorities will not arrest indicted war criminals, including Radovan Karadzic. This morning, the Commissioner met with DCOM OPS, Lt General Roderick Cordy-Simpson of IFOR, to discuss the situation in West Mostar where 71 people have been evicted since early this year. The last eviction is of a female that was evicted by four unknown persons. And it was told that one of the friends of these four, would move into her flat. The Commissioner and General Cordy-Simpson agreed that additional meetings will be held urgently involving all interested international bodies to work out a plan of action. The Commissioner reported that the UN has absolute evidence and clear identification in one case of eviction of HVO involvement and also has a number of reports of people in HVO uniforms evicting minorities. This issue will be raised and the principals meeting that will be held this evening at 1800. Thank you. Jan. Major Jan Joosten: good morning. A new face, a new voice, I am a Dutch major and my name is Jan Joosten , for the non native Dutch speakers I will spell my name.......that is J-a-n J-o-o-s-t-e-n, I am looking forward to working with you in the coming period and hopefully that will be mutual. Yesterday was another busy day in the area of operations. A total of 5 HVO, 10 ABIH and 10 VRS cantonment sites were inspected with no discrepancies found. In the MND North area, in support of the IPTF, IFOR confiscated a number of long barrelled weapons, hand grenades, anti personnel mines and small arms ammunition in a police station in Hajvazi, two kilometers East of Mahala. First, it was cantonment site inspections, then support to the IPTF for police station inspections, and now MND South-West has taken our robust efforts at removing weapons and ammunition from unauthorized locations one step further. Yesterday, IFOR supported the IPTF in the inspection of a cafe in Prozor, South of Gorni Vakuf, which resulted in the confiscation of several hundred rounds of small arms ammunition, a pair of hand grenades and a mixed bag of small arms. Today at 1130, command of MND South-East will be transferred from General Xavier de Lambert to General Yves Le Chatelier in a simple ceremony in Mostar. That’s it. C. Murphy: thank you and welcome. Questions? A. Ivanko: before we go to questions today is Jan (inaudible) last day at the press briefing. I think he did an excellent job here and gave us all a hard time at the podium so let’s give him a hand. C. Murphy: any questions? Jan. The answer is no. Q: first of all thank you and I can promise one thing, I will be back. And second, David last night on Pale TV, after government session, the government of Republika Srpska Prime Minister Kuklilavic announced that all refugees from Republika Srpska Granija will vote in local elections next year. Is it with OSCE content agreement or is it just their decision? What is your position on this? D. Foley: the rules for the municipal elections will all have to be agreed by the PEC. At the moment, that is not the state of play. And I would anticipate that that is not going to be the case. There are discussions under way between OSCE and the parties, to reach a consensus on this issue. The issue will be discussed at the PEC meeting tomorrow, for the first time. Since we have the Bosnian Serbs agreement for the OSCE to supervise the preparation and conduct of the elections, I think everyone is aware of the discussions that have gone on. And I would also draw your attention to the remarks made on Tuesday, printed in Slovingna yesterday by Mirahigric, where in case anybody didn’t see it, he said, with regard to the MOU, he said, there’s no significant reason to be afraid of it. He said there is no need to be too sensitive to this agreement. We are working quite hard on making sure that there is a consensus in the PEC, on all issues connected to the municipal elections. As you know the London Agreement called for a agreement by consensus by the end of January and we’re hoping to meet that and we expect to do so. It is a difficult task, it is a sensitive task. It is one that can not be conducted in the bright glare of spot lights. We don't want to back anyone into a corner. We don't want to make it more difficult, we want to make it a process that leads to a result not to posturing. We welcome the support of all of the parties, with this initiative so far. And we are making good strong positive progress, despite some sniping and rather unwelcome interventions, even sophomoric interventions. Q: I’m a little confused. I’m only a little confused. I’m a little confused about the rules regarding military officers breaking what May be civilian laws, for instance the people in the HVO and Mostar. I’m not sure who to ask this question to so I’ll just give it to the panel. Is it the civilian police’s responsibility to enforce civilian laws for instance, if a police, if a soldier evicts someone from a home that’s I suppose breaking a civilian laws. Or is that the military police? If it is the military police’s job to do that, then is it IFOR’s job to make sure that this doesn’t happen? Who is in charge of making sure the old ladies in Mostar are not throw out of their homes by the HVO, is the essence of the question? And whoever it is, what are you doing about it? A. Ivanko: as far as I understand it is the West Mostar authorities and West Mostar police in charge of ensuring that old ladies are not thrown out of their homes. Q: even though the ..(interruption) A. Ivanko; it doesn’t matter. The West Mostar police should ensure that people are not evicted from their homes. Some of the people for example we’re not sure are HVO, although they are wearing HVO uniforms. The West Mostar police have not been doing a great job to say the least. And only lately, only lately I’d say in the past few days, have increased patrols in the areas where there are minorities living. So that is why a plan of action is being worked out by the international bodies involved. And specifically by IFOR and IPTF. Once this plan of action is in place, we will give you the details. Q: it is possible then, it is done, that civilian police take action against uniformed military? A. Ivanko: well let’s look at this realistically. The only action they have to take it is to throw whoever moved into that apartment out and get the legitimate owner in. That’s basically the bottom line. And they haven’t been doing that. Q: if the current occupant is a member of the armed forces the civilian police can do that? A. Ivanko: as far as I know the West Mostar police yes can ensure that the legitimate occupant has the right to move into his apartment. At least let me put it this way, the West Mostar police never complained to us on this subject and never told us why don't you go talk to the military police about this matter. C. Murphy: Colum then Chris then... Q: Alex and Jan. On the issue of evictions, the other day I forgot to mention when I was going on about the HVO in Mostar, in Sarajevo and in other areas in Bosnia Herzegovina, we know for certain that the Bosnia army has evicted people from former JNA flats, in order to install Bosnian army officers in these flats. Evictions were carried out by Bosnian army officers, and I think IPTF has been present in helping to try an prevent those. But again this is the Bosnia army committing these acts, which are apparently in violation of the law, at least according to the High Representative’s Human Rights Coordination Center. Is IFOR involved in at all in dealing with the Bosnian army on this and censoring them? I’m just curious if you are aware and what you are planning to do about it? J. Joosten: I’m not aware of this at the moment, but we will look into it. A. Ivanko: we are aware that some cases have been reported to the UN IPTF police. I’m not really sure what we are doing about it, so I will have to get back to you on it. Q: again I guess it’s just a question of...in terms of jurisdiction with in the DPA, is it IFOR or IPTF, or high rep.? Or should IFOR be bearing more of the burden? K. Janowski: the JNA evictions are a violation of property rights rather than ethnic rights since Muslims have been affected by this as well as Serbs. Some of the evicted people have been Serbs, some of the evicted people have been Muslims and it is essentially the Bosnian army ignoring the laws under which these people purchased the property purchase. So it is a slightly different issue, the Mostar evictions are. Even though they have a criminal and a I’m sure a financial element to them. They also have the element of ethnic evictions. Only Serbs and Muslims get evicted. And ultimately it has to be the local authorities who ensure that these things don't happen. I mean otherwise you know, the international community can not occupy West Mostar, and run it for them. I don't think this is going to happen. So it has to be the local authorities. But we are in a slightly lunatic situation, because if the police were suppose to ensure that these things don't happen, except for the police participate in them. And it’s the police it the Republika of Srpska and the zone of separation who’re suppose to ensure the houses are not blown up, except that they do it. So it’s not an easy situation. But in the end some kind of pressure has to come on the authorities so that they shape up and ensure the safety of their citizens. I mean in the long run I don't think how we can do it or anybody else can do it for them. Q: the reason I asked was because whenever IFOR seems to be asked or seems to be reminded of its responsibilities or an interpretation of its responsibilities under the Dayton Agreement to do something that it doesn’t what to do. There tends to be political pressure from the NATO countries as...to try and resolve the situation. Where as we see very little pressure from countries at this point. But when NATO is asked to do something they don't want to do they tend to go to the political leaders and say oh this has to be a political solution. K. Janowski: well...I...I can only say what I said. I mean...UNHCR is a humanitarian organization, we can not prescribe what sort of pressure should be applied and what should be done. But certainly the authorities in many places are not...are not delivering on the Dayton promises, to me. And that’s a sad fact. A. Ivanko: and that’s not correct that IFOR is not doing anything. The whole reason for the meeting today with Lt. General Cordy-Simpson was to discuss a joint plan, an IPTF/IFOR plan, on how to deal with the situation. So IFOR is involved in it, the UN is involved in it, and the Office of the High Rep. Are involved. Q: that May be true but we have reports HVO involvement (inaudible) thrown out of their houses since the beginning of the year. A. Ivanko: well as I said, we can only confirm one case where we can give you 101 percent HVO involvement. Q: is there any investigation an any dialogue between IFOR and IPTF on HVO involvement before that? A. Ivanko: that’s what...that’s what we pointed out today, that we are investigating the other cases where people in HVO uniform. And I do believe that if you’re not HVO you’re not going to wear an HVO uniform. Q: just to paraphrase Elizabeth Newfer, I mean until we in the press started saying wait, wait, these guys are HVO’s and this is an IFOR responsibility we never saw any action of investigation on the part of IFOR...coordination between IFOR and IPTF on the reports of HVO evictions in Mostar which have been occurring since, or at least have been reported since the beginning of the year. A. Ivanko: this is not a round table but I will tend to disagree with you, because it was IPTF who first reported the case where we did confirm HVO involvement, which was about 2 weeks ago. Q: right but you have been ...(interruption) A. Ivanko: let’s...let’s go to the next question, this is not a round table we can discuss it after. K. Janowski: is HAVEO the same as HVO. J. Joosten: yes C. Murphy: there’s a question from Chris then Matt, and then Dan. Q: yeah this is a question for the High Rep’s Office. I wonder if you could comment and also confirm that apparently there is a law or a rule part of The Hague War Crimes Tribunal their mandate. That if they haven’t had cooperation from an entity police force in the arrest of war criminals, after what is called a reasonable period of time, they are suppose to notify the Security Council. Which is then suppose to arrest them, arrest these war criminals on behalf of The Hague. Now the mechanism for that is apparently that at the Security Council would then find agency or an agent to go and do this job, who ever it might be. I’m wondering firstly, as there now seems to be a bit of a head of steam, among The Hague prosecutors, to make this request to the Security Council. If the request is made by them, would the High Representative support the request? And the second part of the question is, I mean I think everybody here knows why they haven’t made this request of the Security Council, but I’m just wondering if Bildt has any idea why they haven’t made this request given that a reasonable period of time has elapsed through the Republika of Srpska? C. Murphy: let me just try and sort out the various element of what you said and the question at the heart of it. Would Mr. Bildt support what comes from the Security Council, of course yes. That’s the short answer. And if you allow me I will make a slightly longer answer this being as you said, having a head of steam at the moment and mounting international pressure in regard to indicted war criminals. I do not have the rules of procedure of the Tribunal in front of me. Perhaps Alex could comment later on this. A. Ivanko: yeah I have the rule I can read it after Colum. C. Murphy: but I will just make this comment first and then if Alex has something to say on the matter. First of all let me say this is an extremely controversial issue. So let me without notes, try to phrase my thinking carefully here. The supreme secular authority on the planet, is the United Nations Security Council. I say secular because let’s set aside moral codes like Christianity, or Islam, or Buddhism, or whatever. The supreme secular authority on the planet is the Security Council, not the NAC, not the government of my country, not the government of the United States of America, not the government of Botswana, nor anybody else, but the Security Council. And of course the United Nations Security Council is constructed in such a way that the main powers are represented on it, and 5 of them have a veto as you know. Second point is that the Security Council set up the Tribunal at The Hague which then became and independent judicial body. Therefore the Tribunal is within its rights and under the authority of the Security Council able to issue indictments of people suspected of major war crimes. Difficult though that was to achieve, it has issued the indictments that we all know about, including against leading indicted war criminals like Dr, Radovan Karadzic and General Mladic, alleged to have carried out various substantial war crimes. Now the Tribunal is an independent authority, but of course in the rules of procedure as I understand it, it can of course refer to that supreme legal authority which is the Security Council. And ask the Security Council to hand down a decision or a resolution designated, designating who perhaps, may arrest indicted war criminals. That’s the heart of the matter. Therefore, as this issue becomes more and more controversial it is of course within the authority of the Security Council to do more and issue decisions and resolutions in regard to the early arrest of indicted war criminals. A. Ivanko: I will only add to that it doesn’t really have to be the Security Council, it is rule 59 bis, which is call mission of arrest warrants, which says that the registrar shall transmit on the appropriate authority, or international body, or the prosecutor a copy of a warrant for the arrest of an accused, on such terms as the judge may determine together with an order for his prompt transfer to the Tribunal in the event that he be taken into custody by that authority, international body, or the prosecutor. Warrants that have been issued by the Tribunal are already been transferred to international bodies, i.e. ...Interpol, as well as IFOR. The relationship between NATO and the Tribunal is governed by the memorandum of understanding that has been signed between IFOR and the Tribunal. And the position of both the Tribunal and NATO is that for operational reasons this memorandum of understanding will not be discussed in public. Q: Alex, if I could just follow up. I mean there is a lot of people in the Tribunal disagrees with you and say that NATO has refused to do the job for them. It is I’m sure a degree a reasonable period of time and the RS is actually employing these guys. The reasonable period is gone. They can unilaterally apply to the Security Council to do something about it. And it would be hard to see the Security Council turning down that kind of request. But what I am wondering is whether you can comment on this? I mean is the fact that they haven’t done it because the Security Council also includes their paymasters who wouldn’t be very to be embarrassed like this just before Christmas. A: Ivanko, well there is a possibility that the Tribunal like any other organization can go to the Security Council on any matter of importance, of any matter it deems of significant importance why they haven’t done it, I’ll have to talk to the Tribunal but the problem is really that the Tribunal has been actively pressuring through both public and diplomatic channels the member states of the North Atlantic Council to try to get the North Atlantic Council to clarify the rules for IFOR or what ever is the follow-up force with regard to war criminals, so the Tribunal has been very active on that matter. A: Murphy, so let me just had before we go to Matt and then Dan that long has our answers may be, in fact this is an extremely, obviously critical matter and I think we weigh our words very carefully because we all believe indicted war criminals should go to The Hague, so it is something that has to be dealt with as very carefully as possible. And that would be our answer but we will take further questions if necessary. Matt and then Dan. Q: good morning, this is a question to IFOR, does IFOR consider the roaming, when war criminals roaming the countryside with heavily armed escort as a direct threat to the security of their troops on the ground yes or no if possible? A: Joosten, well as you know we had that, we looked at the situation yesterday with Karadzic police people are allowed to wear long barrelled weapons outside the zones of separations. We were informed and by the IPTF and that’s it. A: Ivanko, I have to clarify that sorry they’re not allowed to carry long barrelled weapons outside the zone of separation, unless specifically authorized by the UN police commissioner. As far as we know these six individuals from the special police unit were not authorized to carry long barrelled weapons, the only people that are authorized to do so is the protection detail for President Plavsic. Q: just a follow-up I’m not talking about not specific, I mean yesterday’s incident of course raises this issue again as we have noticed but in principle this is, I’m asking a question of policy or whatever, you have indicted war criminals who have powers of position or at least positions of influence okay not official but they have heavily armed escorts and they roam the countryside. We know because these gentlemen appear in, you know from time to time in different locations. So and from your answer IFOR does not consider these people who are always in the escort of heavily armed men to be a threat to the security to troops on the ground, that for instance you know you could have an incident where there’s an IFOR, you know a couple of HUMVEE’s coming down the road and there’s a couple of you know, heavily armed men coming up the other side of the road and there could be you know a problem, because there could be a confrontation. A: Joosten, there can be a confrontation you know the line about war criminals in this case an IFOR will detain war criminals if the situation permits. I don’t know what the commander on the ground will consider as a security risk so I can not give an answer to this question. We don’t...we don’t.. It depends on the situation. Q: in the case of the authorities in West Mostar and then as well as the Bosnia Serb authorities in Pale, in both of these issues we’re discussing evictions and extradition of war criminals. Is there any immediate prospect of punishment of any kind? Whether in the form of sanctions or some other measures? It seems to me that the authorities in West Mostar have been evicting people now since the signing of Dayton and there doesn’t seem to be any prospect of sanctions. There has been a lot of...there has been an occasional verbal protest, now we’re are going to have a meeting with a plan of action. And then in Pale will the Bosnian Serb authorities be punished in any way, shape or form? For telling the head of the IPTF that they will not do anything about indicted war criminals? C. Murphy: well let me talk about Bosnia Serbs and then perhaps my Colleagues would like to talk about what the IPTF is doing in Mostar. We are not a Tribunal but we have a lead role politically and as we talked the last few days about conditionality and the use of political, diplomatic, and economic pressure. The federation has received some 98 percent of the economic assistance assigned to Bosnia Herzegovina. The Bosnian Serb economy is in extreme difficulty. We see in their rhetoric more and more intention of participating in international conferences. And participating in various forums with the international community, on Monday for example in Geneva. So we have very considerable economic leverage, and the answer is quite certainly, that yes conditionality means that they would be punished if they continue to adopt the attitude that they will not cooperate on war criminals and other issues. I think the question on Mostar, I don’t know if Alex you want to comment in regard to the IPTF in Mostar? A. Ivanko: I think we have said enough on this issue. C. Murphy: does that answer your question? Q: (inaudible) immediate prospect of punishment of any kind of the authorities in West Mostar. After a year of clear, clear, documented evictions, actually ethnic cleansing as it use to be called when there was a war? C. Murphy: there is an unfortunate power struggle if you will, between (mafia ? Inaudible) elements in Mostar and the international community. Sir Matin Karazdid has taken very brave stances and we have supported him, as has Ambassador Michael Steiner. Barring an invasion of West Mostar and forcing the arrest of the criminal elements. The answer unfortunately would be no. Clearly we are not at the moment winning the battle with these criminal elements in West Mostar. And therefore I can not in all honestly say that we have an imminent plan to punish them. Q: isn’t the problem a little bit deeper, especially concerning Herzegbosna that stile exist, although former Secretary of State, Warren Christopher said on the 15th of August that within 14 days Herzegbosna would be dismantled. Is Herzegbosna dismantled now? C. Murphy: officially yes. Unofficially, unfortunately no. Q: so he failed? C. Murphy: we fail all the time, but we also have our successes. Jan. Q: Alex. Is it true that the next list of indictees is to be published early next year, probably mid January. A. Ivanko: come on Jan, you know the position of the of the Tribunal on indictees. You want me to repeat it? Everybody knows it pretty well. Q: I had to try. According to my information tutor who is believed by the (inaudible) governed by OHR and by everybody to be the key to the situation of...in West Mostar will be on the next list of indictees. Don’t you think Colum that if this inactivity goes on you will end with one more city is run by indicted war criminals and you will be unable to do even more? C. Murphy: if the situation goes on yes. That would be the case. We will certainly take the view that it must not go on, I agree with you. Q: sorry Colum can I just be a bit boring and ask you again this direct question. If The Hague people decided to request a Security Council to get these guys arrested by an outside agency, which is in their power unilaterally, will Carl Bildt, who wants these guys arrested by some special kind of police, will Carl Bildt support this request? C. Murphy: will we support the Tribunal yes. Q: in their request to Security Council to authorize an outside force to go and get the war criminals. C. Murphy: the Tribunal is an established part of the system of international law. If they were to make a request and a request to the Security Council, of course that would have the support of Mr. Bildt. Yes. Colum. Q: sorry to be boring as well Colum but you said that the Serbs and those who fail to hand over war criminals will be punished and that the Serbs are interested in going to these international (inaudible). I guess the question is what’s the time frame? What’s the time scale on how long you will allow this to go on? As Phillip Marus would say "farce to go on"? An you give us a deadline when the Serbs and the Croats and eventually the Muslim have to hand in their people? C. Murphy: well let me take that question from another direction. One of the things that concerns Mr. Bildt in regard to conditionality and the use of carrots and sticks, is a desire to avoid a stop, go rebuilding and reconstruction. Micro-conditionality, in other words, supposing we advocate an agree to an establishment of a power plant that benefits the people of Republika Srpska. When this thing is half way built do we suddenly stop? In response to some act of non-compliance? There by throwing various people out of work, thereby wasting international taxpayers money? It’s certainly as I’ve said not an exact science, it’s more of an art. Nobody has the answers as to how conditionality should work, a lot of judgment calls are involved. As to time frame. No we are literally running each and every day and every week so our dead line is always now. And there is no long, neat, action plan that says x amount of better compliance by 3 months from now. Q: sorry just on follow up. But couldn’t...wouldn’t it be... Don’t you think it might be reasonable to argue that investing massive amounts of aid into a state which refuses to comply, with the most fundamental elements of Dayton, is effectively run by people who are indicted by the War Crimes Tribunal, is in effect a waste of international taxpayers’ dollars? C. Murphy: well we’ve been over this ground before. It’s becoming repetitive, and this time it is my turn to say I’m sorry to be boring. But we have dealt in the past with people who have said we don't care anyway about international aid. Because we have our extremist, nationalist goals. Now we see a change in that rhetoric. A certain retreat on their part. They not only say they want international assistance, it’s quite evident that they very much need it. And we have to work with that... Those elements of carrots and sticks as best we can. I think just two more questions and then we have... Q: for Alex and Colum maybe. Do you know of the plans of dropping the addresses from the next list of indictees? The next poster? A. Ivanko: not to my knowledge. C. Murphy: I don't know of this, no. Q: and to IFOR the question. Is there any plans of having those posters be publicly displayed somewhere outside of the IFOR offices. Just came back from Republika Srpska dealing with war criminals and many people ignored that their neighbors were war criminals. So are there any plans of having those posters distributed a little bit widely. J. Joosten: I have no idea. A. Ivanko: we have distributed them to quite a few IPTF police stations so. Q: (inaudible) A. Ivanko: well no, well what we do id give them a whole bunch of posters and they decide where to distribute them. Q: there’s no walls to put them anywhere outside the... A. Ivanko: well we don't own the buildings outside the IPTF station. We can’t go around putting posters on someone else property , if they don’t want a poster on their property. Q: what about the trees in Banja Luka (inaudible)? A. Ivanko: probably on trees in Banja Luka we would also have to check with the local authorities. Q: I would love you to check and I won’t be boring with my next question, I promise. C. Murphy: one last question? Nobody. Thank you very much. D. Foley: sorry church announcement there is a briefing with full translation for the Bosnia meeting here this afternoon at what time is it? 1:30 p.m.?