IFOR AFSOUTH Transcript Nov 23, 1996

In the interest of speed transcripts of IFOR press briefings are issued in unedited format Transcript of Press Briefing held on 23 November 1996

Colum Murphy: good morning. It's getting colder in Sarajevo. You can see the snow around on the hills around us. A couple remarks. With Winter coming on we naturally hope that adequate heating, fuel, water, electricity and basic supplies exist on both sides of the IEBL, and the truth is these things do not adequately exist everywhere in Bosnia Herzegovina. As you know during the war, while fighting tended to diminish in Winter, in fact many people's harshest war memories center on Winter, and on freezing candle-lit and dangerous evenings. We think they underscore the urgent need of the new leadership to focus on economic programs and priorities. The need to quickly agree on joint institutions and the forming of a government is paramount, for economic as well as political reasons. As to the forming of a council of ministers we want and expect, progress this weekend. This year, General Winter should be met and matched by General Economic Common Sense and Cooperation. Needed and function joint institutions are the place for that. If we said before that you can not eat Kosovo then neither can extremist rhetoric keep one warm. For our part, we pledge a full and equal economic treatment of both entities. Falling temperatures will not discriminate as to nationality, and neither will we. Ordinary families in both the RS and the federation will have the same needs and they have the right to demand of their leaders an urgent, professional, free-market approach to their economies. Already economic indicators are better for the federation than for the Republika Srpska. Demonstrations in Belgrade and elsewhere show that people will not forever put off economic security. And, as madame Plavsic- whom I don't normally quote- said recently, "Serbs are a part of Europe." Neither will police methods nor communist methods lift an economy upwards and forwards. Urgently needed economic progress in Bosnia Herzegovina this Winter needs freedom, coordination, professionalism and creativity, and it needs the joint institutions now. A copy of these remarks is available after the press conference. Finally before I give the floor to brett. We're thinking of a church announcement suppressing, ending the Saturday press conferences. Starting with having no press conference next Saturday. We'll be at your disposal and maybe we could see a show of hands, who here for example would be in favor of no further Saturday press conferences? Which we can reinstate if you so wish. Would you put up your hand if you are against our... As a trial putting an end to the Saturday press conferences. (silence) most of you would prefer to continue the Saturday press conferences? Audience member: I think we are confused on what we are voting for. ................(inaudible) C. Murphy: yes I'm always confusing you about voting. All right, if you raise your hand that means there will no Saturday press conference as of next week. Audience member: why didn't you just say put up your hands. C. Murphy: why don't you come up here. (interruption, audience talking inaudible) David Foley: who wants Saturday press conferences raise your hand. C. Murphy: all those who want them put up your hand. Some hands raised. C. Murphy: what are we voting for now? Audience member: who doesn't want a Saturday press conference. C. Murphy: okay we will meditate on the results of that...Brett. Major Brett Boudreau: good morning everybody. Yesterday was another quiet but busy day for us, with area reconnaissance and surveillance involving ground and air patrols throughout the area of operations. More than 25 compliance inspections, and support in the form of framework security for the meeting of the tri-partite presidency in Lukavica.

Just a couple of points, really: 1 Krajina Corps in MND South-West's area had its movement and training ban lifted the other day after it began demining operations, and the convoys from Slavonski Brod to Sarajevo are proceeding on schedule. They are transporting LANDCENT's deployable headquarters - that is to say that command and control element which will allow it to physically deploy to anywhere in Bosnia and to be able to command the operation from where ever it can, they will be able to do that on a short notice. And of course when that is all set up we will arrange a media opportunity for you, much as we did with the ARRC's tactical deployment headquarters and make sure you get a chance to see that. That's all I have. Alex Ivanko: a couple of points. We had a disturbing incident yesterday, with regard to our station commander in Novasina, who was driving to Mostar and had a hand grenade thrown into his car, which exploded. The station commander and the interpreter sustained minor injuries and are currently at the French military hospital in Mostar. The incident happened right near the Inter-Entity Boundary Line. And from The Hague, Trial Chamber One presided over by Judge Claudiarda will hand its judgment in the Obdenaic case on Friday 29th November at 11 a.m. Under the provisions of rule 101D of the rules of procedure and evidence, the sentence shall be announced in public and in the presence of the accused. That's all I have thank you. Kris Janowski: I just have a brief sort of a denial, I would say... There were some reports in the local press saying that the World Food Program has not delivered its target amount of food in the last month and this month. I'm told by the World Food Program that they have delivered all the food that they were supposed to deliver. Plus UNHCR has been accused of not giving fuel for the delivery of food, which is true. And the reason why we are not giving fuel to the government at the moment is that the government wants to suppose a huge duty on the fuel that we are giving to it. So as soon as we can sort out the problem we'll be giving fuel for distribution. Thank you. David Foley: good morning I wish I could say it was great to be back, but I'm back anyway. I had a very busy 17-day trip traveling with the Head of Mission of Bosnia Herzegovina, OSCE mission, Ambassador Frowick. Two weeks ago on Wednesday we were in Bern for meetings with the Swiss, the outgoing Chairman in Office of the OSCE. Then to Copenhagen on Thursday for a OSCE Troika meeting, where a statement was issued in full support of OSCE's continued role in as a...supervising the preparation and conduct of municipal elections. Then bilaterals again on Monday in Copenhagen with the Danes who will be taking over the OSCE's Chairman in Office role after the Lisbon Summit on the 2nd and 3rd of December. Then there were meetings in Vienna with members of the Permanent Council regarding the OSCE's extension of mandate here in Bosnia. Then we went to Brussels where Ambassador Frowick addressed the North Atlantic Council last Wednesday, the day before the Paris Summit on Thursday, which we also attended. Then it was off to Yale in the United States for a peace conference held there at the Yale Law School on Saturday. Then, back to Paris on Monday where Ambassador Frowick addressed the North Atlantic Council, again building international solidarity for OSCE's continued role with regard to the elections...municipal elections. Then it was back to Dayton immediately for the one year anniversary ceremony and symposium, marking the signing of the Dayton Peace Accords which was on Tuesday through Thursday. And now we are back. We will be attending a meeting in Brussels at the end of the week . The Ambassador will be going that...that follows on to the Bonn Peace Implementation Council Steering Board meeting and then to Lisbon for the OSCE summit. Then to London on the 4th and 5th for the big peace conference in London. Audience member: (clapping) I didn't know Yale was at war. D. Foley: ....so.....the Bosnian Peace Conference in Yale which is not at war. All right. C. Murphy: before we take your questions we have some comments from a spokesman for OXFAM. Lukas Haynes: my name is Lukas Haynes. I'm an analyst with OXFAM, international development organization headquartered in the UK. Late Friday night arsonists attacked the offices of a local human rights center in Vrhovine, Croatia, which is sponsored by OXFAM and ECHO -- the European Community Humanitarian Office. This incident follows a failed arson attack in July and an assault in October on two staff members who provide humanitarian assistance to vulnerable groups and promote conditioned for the return of refugees. Mirjana Galo, Coordinator of the Center named homo said "flammable material was thrown down the chimney" and fire fighters had to be called to contain the blaze. That's all for now. C. Murphy: questions. L. Haynes: we have a facts statement and I can take questions. C. Murphy: he'll be in the front row there if you have questions for him, we'll pass the microphone to him. Karen. Q: Alex, the grenade that was thrown at the IPTF officers, I'm sorry in missed it, where were those IPTF officers? What station were they from? A. Ivanko: station commander of Uvcina traveling with his interpreter towards Mostar close to the Inter-Entity Boundary Line, near the village of Ranchichi. A grenade was thrown into the car, which then exploded. The interpreter and the station commander were able to stop the car and jump out, that's why they only sustained minor injuries. Q: and any idea who it was at all? A. Ivanko: no absolutely no idea. We may have a detailed report of something later. Today, maybe or on Monday. C. Murphy: anybody else, Colum. Q: just for Kris. You said the Bosnians are imposing a duty on UNHCR fuel. I thought all UN and IFOR fuel and stuff that came in the country was supposed to be exempt from duties. K. Janowski: yeah. We can a country agreement. We don't know why the Bosnia government...this is a recurring problem we've had it off and on with the Bosnian government. I don't really know what sort of duty is being imposed... At the moment but I can find out for you. But it's an ongoing... It's not really new. It happened on several occasions during the war. We've had problems with former hopefully heads of Bosnia imposing duty on our fuel and then the Bosnian government and everybody else in of course Republika Srpska. Q: lastly just for Brett. Do you have any more information on the situation of the...or the High Rep may be able to answer this as well, on the situation and the conflict between General Mladic and the government in RS. And, what is IFOR's position, if in fact there's conflict between interior ministry forces and the army of RS? Will they be allowed to take weapons out of cantonments? What's the IFOR position on that? Maj Boudreau: we've always said that the current instability in the VRS is a matter for the political authorities and the military authorities to resolve. We have received a letter from President Plavsic to the effect that she had nominated General Tolic to the post of head of the VRS. We recognize that appointment. We obviously are interested in following the activities of the authorities and our only concern would be if whether or not materials as you suggest weapons or other such military equipment is being removed from cantonment sites in order to force an issue, and it has not. Weapons have not been removed. I mean there's nothing to indicate over the course of this whole dispute that there's been anything untoward with respect to military involvement in the cantonment sites or otherwise. So we are satisfied that our relationship with them will continue, as it has been, that is to say we regard them in compliance. We've seen nothing to indicate otherwise. C: Murphy: do you want a comment from me? Well first of all, as I've said before, an internal affair of the Republika Srpska. However if you look at the economic disarray, in the Republika Srpska, and indeed Serbia itself, and this disarray in that there is some sort of ongoing power struggle in the Republika Srpska between civilians and military. Naturally we are concerned about stability. We are concerned about stability, especially during this coming Winter as I mentioned. And...sadly it seems to mean that the ordinary people will pay the price, but at least we see a movement -- a slight movement away from extremist, nationalist, rhetoric in the Republika Srpska. And perhaps across the board certain failed war policies are now playing themselves out. This particular crisis in the Republika Srpska , we don't wish to get involved in. We recognized madame Plavsic as the legitimate President of the Republika Srpska but we are observing it and it's more less playing itself out. Hopefully peacefully rather as we anticipated. Q: Colum what evidence do you have that the discounted rhetoric is actually diminished? When they opened a factor the other day, they carried out a ceremony whereby the Turks were still killing the Serbs there, dredging up the 700-year history again. Momcilo Krajisnik was there, he revoked the name of dr. Karadzic very directly. What is your evidence that this rhetoric is dying out? C. Murphy: well I...I don't say that it's gone, not at all, and it surfaces again in ugly ways, frequently. But we have heard Madame Plavsic and President Krajisnik refer to the fact that they understand their sovereignty is limited. There is some small but consistent change in their rhetoric in compliance with the dictates of Dayton. There's a long way to go yet, though. Karen, then Chris. Q: Colum you mentioned that there might be a council of ministers formed this weekend. What's happening that's going to lead to that? C. Murphy: the next meeting of the presidency, you know, is on Tuesday, I believe. But we are going to be using as much diplomatic pressure as possible this weekend and also we're trying to be as helpful as possible in coming up with a formula that's mutually agreeable. Q: just back to that formula. I remember that last time I asked this question there was a clear difference of opinion between Krajisnik, what he wanted in terms of the ministry and the powers it would have and what zubak, and Izetbegovic wanted. Do you know if their coming around to perhaps a solution or are they as still as divided as ever on their formation of the council of ministers? C. Murphy: I think they are toying with the idea of the need for compromise. But nothing can be taken for granted here. We would not be surprised if the deadlock remains. But neither would we be surprised if we can resolve this. I think on both sides of the IEBL, there is a need as I mentioned for example, for economic cooperation. So we are going to push on that this weekend. Q: but....but...what was the Paris conference all about? Because I thought that was one of the things that were going to be achieved after the Paris conference and I thought that you had somehow gotten some sort of an agreement from them. C. Murphy: no. We wanted that they form a Council Administration Government before Paris. They didn't do that and that was disappointing. Now it's even more urgent that they do so before the London conference which will flesh out the details of the Paris agreement. And they still haven't, as you know, agreed on a council of ministers but they don't seem as quite as intransigent. So we don't know the answer. We just keep pushing over the next days. Q: in your remarks you said we pledge a full and equal economic treatment for both entities. Is this again sort of indicative that the aid program is going to be resumed with some vigor on the Serb side of the line or is there still conditions that they have meet before they get their share of the loot? C. Murphy: no we have a close relationship obviously with the World Bank. They defer to us politically, and I think you attended the press conference yesterday, I was not here, in which Mr. o'Sullivan explained why some 98 percent of the assistance has come to the federation compared to the Republika Srpska. But that's not because -- this is what I'm emphasizing -- any desire on our part to be discriminatory and we are very well aware that ordinary people in the Republika Srpska have the same needs as in the federation. But we have had the intransigence I mentioned which has been a kind of self sanctions coming from the Pale leadership in last months as you know. We want to overcome that, as I think Mr. o'Sullivan would have explained better than I. Q: no, is it your position that aid should be resumed to Republika Srpska in substantial volume. Not withstanding the fact that the leadership might continue to violate the Dayton Peace Agreement. He said they did not defer to you. He was asked a specific question yesterday and said no they don't defer to you politically but the World Bank board is the governing authority. C. Murphy: well, we have very good relations but we have differences to sort out in a friendly way because the World Bank existed long before the Office of the High Representative did. And they have procedures worked out over many years and they try to be as nonpolitical as possible, but the Paris conference gave greater coordinating powers to Mr. Bildt and so we are trying to sort this out in a friendly way. They have their procedures long in place but there are political imperatives. We cannot negotiate with people, for example, other agencies and I don't mention simply the World Bank, providing aid in a way that perhaps diminishes our leverage. Q: is there an intention on the part of the international community --or at least on the part of Mr. Bildt -- to give substantial amounts of aid to Republika Srpska in the near term, not withstanding continued violation of the Dayton peace accord by their elected political leadership. C. Murphy: we believe in conditionality. Is that the answer. If there is violations of the agreement we are not going to be pushing for the handing out of economic aid in the teeth of noncompliance with the Dayton Agreement. But we also will be prepared to break the rule occasionally for humanitarian needs. If this Winter, for example, there are particular humanitarian needs are not going to be pedantic about it. Sabina. Q: just to follow up. Mr. Bildt at his press conference said that the conditionality doesn't seem to be working when it comes to the Republika Srpska. And that one way to enhance refugee return would be to give aid to Republika Srpska so that the refugees have a better choice between the housing projects in federation and the ruins in Republika Srpska. So which gave an impression that the aid is going to start flowing to Republika Srpska with or without compliance. And, he said that conditionality doesn't seem to be working because their whole attitude is we're not going to get any money anyway, so anyway ... C. Murphy: I'm certainly not going to argue with Mr. Bildt. But I don't think that he said that we don't believe in conditionality. He said that it doesn't always seem to be working, and that is true. It has been the case always that intransigent regimes can thumb their noses at economic aid and say we can go ahead with our ambitions without economic assistance. So I don't say that we've resolved this policy question perfectly. We have believed in conditionality, and we'll work it out with our colleagues in the World Bank and other colleagues. And we will also make exceptions and play this one by ear as it goes forward. But on the other hand because the of the tough-minded approach we have seen some change in the rhetoric coming from Pale. And that is true. Colum and then Chris. Q: it's a bit unclear to me, Colum. If you don't have control over the funds that go to Republika Srpska then how is it in your power to necessarily make exceptions one way or the other? C. Murphy: that's why the Paris conference strengthened the coordinating powers of Mr. Bildt. And I know this debate very well. In the case of South Africa, for example, people said for years that sanctions were counterproductive because they hurt the small man or small woman in the street and they did no damage to the regime. Now you have a President of South Africa who has spent many years as a victim of that supremacist regime as President of the country and a very good one -- largely because of international pressure and the sanctions. So it's a debate with arguments on both sides but conditionality and sanctions are the threat thereof and a lot of patience do seem to work. Q: I'm sorry you just said Mr. Bildt's powers were strengthened, the coordinating were strengthened. Could you tell us how because he certainly didn't give the impression his powers were strengthen? C. Murphy: there was a General Agreement in Paris that the international community dispersing economic aid across the board, needed a central point and that that was the High Representative.... It was the High Representative that would fill that role. That was a General Agreement and the idea is that the London conference would flesh that out in greater detail. So we still discuss these things with the World Bank and others to reach our needs satisfactorily. Chris. Q: Colum maybe I can put this question another way then. The one piece of leverage that Carl Bildt used to have was conditionality. And he could say that if the Serbs don't play the game then there won't be any aid. Now it seems to be he's going to the London conference as far as I can see...with a fudge. He says it's not working. Now we're saying to you does that mean we're not going to use it. No, no, we still think it's a good idea but we're not sure. You either want it or you don't want it. Now the World Bank has made it clear they don't want it. And as I understand it there's a big row between the two of you. And that's one of the reasons why the donor conference is being put off. What I want to know is by the time London or by year's...year's end are you going to have resolved this either one way or the other...because presumably the whole point about conditionality is that everyone knows where you stand. You can't just make the Serbs think that maybe there will be some. You have to give a clear message there is or there isn't. But if you say there is, there's going to be a big dispute with the World Bank, as far as I can see, because they say they can only make decisions economically. And I guess my question is if you don't get all this fixed and if you don't get a government here in Sarajevo is the donors conference going to be postponed a second time beyond February? C. Murphy: it's not impossible that there will be slippage of the donor's conference timetable. You've made a number of points that I'm trying to remember. Is there a big row between the World Bank and the High Representative? Absolutely and categorically not. But it is.. There is ongoing debate and as I said the World Bank existed long before we did. They have their procedures and practices which they like to carry out in a non political way. But this is a very political environment and there has to be coordination. It's perfectly normal for the international community and its different agencies to discuss these things, debate them and work them out. And we took a big step forward in Paris and hope to take another few steps forward in that regard in London. That's normal. Anybody else. Q: what is the situation with the renewal of the return of refugees to ZOS -- zone of separation? C. Murphy: we are hoping to lift and recommend the lifting of the suspension very soon. What is very soon? I don't want to be pinned down but we're talking perhaps roughly a week, ten days, something like that. I don't want to be more precise about it but we want to see that suspension lifted. The letters that we addressed to the parties -- and the letters that we demanded of them -- that they send to their officials ordering them to abide by the procedures, were sent out. We take madame Plavsic's word. The word of the officials on the federation side that the appropriate orders were given right down the line. If we see that sort of proper adherence to the procedure we're anxious to lift the suspension sooner rather than later. Q: but at the beginning of this week you were saying you want to have it solved before the end of the week. Now you are postponing for another week or 10 days. C. Murphy: I said I don't want to be pinned down it could be a few days but on the outside most probably within a maximum of 10 days, but hopefully earlier. But this is something that we want to decide upon and not be pinned down on because we have to see whether there is the appropriate compliance. Q: but how will you know that there is proper compliance, because inwards, both sides down to the regional officials already swore that... C. Murphy: well this is not an exact science. Just as conditionality in that debate is not either. We'll make a judgment, a value judgment. Consulting across the board with all of our colleagues in the international community, we will assess the situation, talk to the parties and make a judgment and a decision. Chris. Q: two minor points for Brett and Alex. Brett I know the Serbs can't have roadblocks against Muslims and Croats. But are the Serbs allowed under Dayton to have roadblocks against themselves? (inaudible) minister of interior and minister of defense and maybe you can explain if there's any ... If they are allowed to do that or not. And just for Alex about this roadblock, this checkpoint that the BIH police operate outside Sarajevo on the road to Pale, do you have any news on why that's been allowed to continue? Thanks. A. Ivanko: that's not suppose to be a checkpoint. If it's a traffic posting they can operate that. They are not allowed to operate any checkpoints, so I'll mention it again. If it's a checkpoint we'll raise it with the bh parties. Q: what's the difference between a checkpoint... A. Ivanko: two guys in green uniforms standing on the side of a wall with a lollipop, that's a traffic post. Something more permanent, that's a checkpoint. Maj Boudreau: in fact about a week to 10 days ago, MND-North removed a checkpoint around the Han Pijesak area, which was essentially set up through for traffic control reasons. Although it was certainly close enough to Han Pijesak to suggest that it might have been used for other purposes. And, we removed that checkpoint. Q: (inaudible) Maj Boudreau: it would be my understanding that they can take what ever activity they feel is required to contain their own internal security concerns. But if it begins to effect the freedom of movement of IFOR or other international organizations, then we would move to remove it. C. Murphy: anybody else? If there's nobody else, thank you very much.